Quote from: TPTB_need_war on October 28, 2015, 10:31:31 PM

Quote from: iotatoken on October 26, 2015, 09:56:57 PM

Quote from: lajz99 on October 26, 2015, 09:51:33 PM

Quote from: iotatoken on October 26, 2015, 09:47:17 PM

Quote from: lajz99 on October 26, 2015, 09:36:03 PM

Quote from: iotatoken on October 26, 2015, 09:33:28 PM

0% of the coins go to the team. The team will be compensated via funds raised in the ICO, no pre-mine. We'll have to buy our tokens just like everyone else.

ie. we will have no reason to continue working on the coin as we will not be vested in it and have already received another currency we could cash out into FIAT

I have no problem understanding this concern, given the space that we're in (crypto is the wild wild wild west after all), but your assumption here is blatantly wrong. We chose 0% premine because that is what is the absolute most fair to every party involved. We are basing our entire start-up around IoT, which we've been working on in stealth for a year, as explained in OP this is what prompted us to develop IOTA. It is a necessary ingredient for the vision of IoT that our start-up is focused on. On top of this all of us will invest our personal funds into IOTA, so no we have a ton of incentive to make IOTA a success.

how is a 0% premine any more fair than you raising BTC and repaying yourself for the coins you "purchased"?
either way you are receiving BTC and you are using BTC to buy said coins. they're free coins for you...

It is more fair because it means it's entirely up for grabs to anyone. There is no coins arbitrarily set aside for the developers...

This is still a form of premine. You can convert all of you ICO funding to coins in any scenario while paying those funds to yourself. Since you can pay yourself numerous times, and recycle the funds to pay yourself again, there is no limit to the number of coins you can buy from yourself.

Even if you require all funds to be presented up front, that doesn't prevent you from taking out a loan which you can pay back fully because you buy the coins from yourself.

Even if you limit the supply of coins and force all offers to be tendered at once and randomly choose in a publicly verifiable process, you can still stack the bids to be sure you get the % of coins you want.

If you instead have a market driven price for the ICO and a fixed supply of coins, then you can bid on your own coins driving the price higher and generating more funds while obtaining some of the coins cheaper than others who have paid you to buy your coins cheaper.

The only way around this would be to verify the identify of every purchaser and make this information public (or audited by a trusted entity), which I doubt most purchasers would agree to.

The only solution I see for this dilemma is to identify each purchaser, but do it in a convenient and non-intrusive way. That is why I have been thinking to only sell up to say $500 to each user (no investors! so as to avoid creating an illegal unregistered investment security so you all don't all end up in jail in the future) and allowing these purchases only by credit card (or verified bank account funding via Paypal to avoid chargebacks) with an auditing process that insures each name on the card is unique. I suppose you are clever enough you can pay people to let you use their credit cards (or steal them), but this is a crime and probably easy to track down (especially during any SEC investigation), so it is very risky and one would assume legit developers won't risk crime (heck they are talented, and can earn a lot of money taking programming jobs outside of crypto).

The only other way is some mining distribution, but wastes resources that could be better used to fund development.

This a serious dilemma. I have thought about it a lot. Has anyone else devised a better solution?

I agree that it would be nicer to do something else than an ico.
CFB, I see you did not come up with a better idea. In the recent past, if im not mistaken, you were looking at a way to distribution to unique user. Why not pay a third party to do this verification process?