Quote from: ThatDGuy on June 11, 2013, 09:22:15 PM

Wow, now you can see how well hypothetical situations work around here, hexed! Let's go through this with some commentary:

I hope that commentary includes how Mezzomix is better off with less than the 200 BTC he started with.

Quote from: ThatDGuy on June 11, 2013, 09:22:15 PM

Quote from: k9quaint on June 11, 2013, 08:58:22 PM

Quote from: hexed on June 11, 2013, 08:46:15 PM

Quote from: k9quaint on June 11, 2013, 08:07:57 PM

Hexed is wrong, Mezzomix is right.

My reply was:

Quote

There is zero speculation involved. We do not need to consider exchange rates. He paid 200BTC for a product that is supposed to create BTC. In October 2012 (according to your stats), the device would produce 300 BTC per month. Unfortunately, due to delay in shipment, it may not generate 200BTC in it's lifetime. The only reason for this is the difficulty has risen over the intervening period.

We do not need to consider why difficulty rose. We do not need to consider alternative investments like Avalon or ASICMiner shares. We do not need to consider exchange rates. Nobody has yet explained why getting less than 200 BTC back was good for Mezzomix.

ahhh yes, as I had mentioned...

Quote from: hexed on June 11, 2013, 06:20:24 PM

...They are basically saying that the exchange rate has absolutely nothing to do with their investment in BTC. So yes, I agree that if your sole purpose was to mine BTC and hold on to BTC with no regard to how much they are actually WORTH in USD.. then yes, you will not get back an equal amount of BTC....

The sole purpose of BFL hardware is to mine BTC. Thank you for agreeing with me and Mezzomix.

This is taken out of context, and spun. Both poorly.

Note, Hexed explicitly said that it was a theoretical situation to highlight that type of thinking, and also specified that he didn't subscribe to it.

That does not explain how Mezzomix is better off with less than the 200 BTC he started with.

Quote from: ThatDGuy on June 11, 2013, 09:22:15 PM

Quote from: k9quaint on June 11, 2013, 08:58:22 PM

Quote from: hexed on June 11, 2013, 08:46:15 PM

..but that is ok, k9quaint will continue to argue a point even though the other SEVERAL factors I included make no sense. It's like saying..

More than just several. I wish you would stop including them.

You do realize that he included the nonsensical points in the hypothetical specifically to highlight the type of reasoning you've been displaying so far, right?

Quote from: k9quaint on June 11, 2013, 08:58:22 PM

Quote from: hexed on June 11, 2013, 08:46:15 PM

Mezzomix said he wants to be launched into space duck taped to a homemade rocket! It is possible so you are wrong!!! When the actually premises of the idea is true (yes, if you had a nice enough rocket, you could certainly launch yourself into space).. but the truth of the matter is, he will die before he gets there.. since you know.. there are other FACTORS at play there. But instead of seeing how ridiculous the idea is, you just argue the fact that it is possible to prove a point. A point that most people would not care about.

You keep bringing up random statements (duct tape and rockets) that have nothing to do with the original premise which was:

I can admit that if you didn't get the above point, then it's likewise probably getting difficult to keep up with abstraction here, but as an observer, I understood what hexed meant.

It does not explain how Mezzomix is better off with less than the 200 BTC he started with.

Quote from: ThatDGuy on June 11, 2013, 09:22:15 PM

Quote from: k9quaint on June 11, 2013, 08:58:22 PM

Quote from: hexed on June 11, 2013, 08:46:15 PM

If Mezzomix thought that when he ordered the BFL device, that you would be able to mine MORE BTC than what you purchased it for, then in the words of the Knight in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.. "He chose... poorly".

Yes, he chose poorly. He will probably never get his 200 BTC back. Thus his was not a "bullshit statement" as you earlier claimed and have now recanted.

No. You're twisting statements around for your own convenience, again. This is the part of hexed's statement that highlighted the "bullshit":

Still no explanation of how Mezzomix is better off with less than the 200 BTC he started with.

Quote from: hexed on June 11, 2013, 04:15:26 PM

So with all of this said.. YOU would not be here today complaining about the 200BTC you never made back. YOU would be complaining that it will take forever to make back the 1200-1300$ it cost for you to buy the BFL device.

People like you, and there are plenty in this forum, like to mold their argument based on whatever makes them win instead of using common sense.

Quote from: ThatDGuy on June 11, 2013, 09:22:15 PM

Quote from: k9quaint on June 11, 2013, 08:58:22 PM

Quote from: hexed on June 11, 2013, 08:46:15 PM

When I ordered in August 2012, I thought "No matter if I get my device now, or later, I'm betting on the price of BTC to go up when the reward halves so I think I will still make a profit." Now I had done my due diligence and found out that they were notorious for late shipping, over promising and under delivering.. so I personally thought that the shipping would be late. Of course I didn't think it would be THIS late. Whether or not the price went up because of the reward halving, I am still going to profit. In fact, my 3 GPU's I have are still mining away making anywhere from $150-$250 a month, and they only equal ~1.35GH/s. If I can still profit with them, then I'll be just fine with ~40GH/s of devices.

These are also words that you have typed into a computer, but it has nothing to do with Mezzomix and his BFL order.

Sure it does, because it is one representation of a rational version of a consumer who understands opportunity cost - the opposite of the consumer who twists the exchange rate around to make their value-at-a-point-in-time seem greater than it really is/was.

We do not need to discuss opportunity cost to determine that Mezzomix is worse off for buying BFL. If you want to demonstrate that Mezzomix is even worse off because of the lost opportunity cost of using that 200 BTC instead of having BFL hold it for 11 months and counting.

There is no need to consider exchange rate because Mezzomix paid BTC for his order. BFL allows you to pay BTC for orders. Bitcoin leaves Mezzomix's wallet, and BFL gives him a pre-order for equipment that does nothing but generate BTC. You are including other variables because you are desperate to deflect this fact.
You and hexed brought up exchange rate, not Mezzomix and not I.

Neither of you are willing to explain how Mezzomix is better off with less BTC than he started with.
Your tedious convolutions only expose you as blind shills who attack everything that criticizes BFL.