Quote from: erre on October 16, 2019, 06:59:01 PM

Quote from: makrospex on October 16, 2019, 06:39:04 PM

Quote from: erre on October 16, 2019, 06:08:20 PM

Freedom is not something due to us from the states, even first-word democracies. Freedom was a conquer, and it still is. States don't want anyone to be free from their influences, they would prefer to in control.
Seastanding is something about freedom, and so it is bitcoin.

Individual freedom is a threat to every authoritative system. In Austria, early this year, 24 members of the self called "state league" were arrested, because they didn't obey to the government. Many preppers amongst them, almost all with rightist political orientation. Groups like this were forbidden by law in the process of crushing it.
I don't think freedom is possible easily on earth, at least it could become a nightmare without proper ethical rules, which in turn would not allow individuals to be really "free". There were some important psychological-ethical discussion that all came to the conclusion that freedom is impossible to achieve in societies, primarily because social relationships are based on dependencies. Also, love, for example, wouldn't be possible without (inter)dependency.

Freedom or anarchy are not the absence of rules. All models of anarchy (I.e. chomsky's anarcho-syndacalism) require people to collaborate on the base of rules and common ethic.
But you are free to left the society if you don't like the rules or you think they are not ethical.

I'm not a tinyfoil hat type, but it's clear that we are going in the direction of governments regulating every aspect of life everywhere, they have the will and, for the first time in history, the means to do it.

That's ok if I like the rules, but if I don't like them I have no place to go anymore. In an hundred years the word could become a totalitarian fascist state in a 1984-like fashion, all we need is a couple wars and people stop fighting for their freedom.

Using btc you have rules (the protocol) which you have to agree if you want to participate, but you can refuse to use bitcoin or fork it if you don't like the rules. But you can't opt-out of state rules or fork the society, and this lead to criminality and conflicts.

Elwar was basically forking, and we should be able to do it.

Most likely (imho) governments are well aware of the ongoing eradication of the middle class. So it's either rich or poor in the future, and history has shown, that this constellation includes lots of risks for the establishment, and that's why the upper class has take measures to keep the lower class controlled.
But as always in history, any movement in any "direction" of humanity or human society is followed by a countermovement. Times of rightist politics always were followed by leftist episodes, and vice versa. At the time we are on the way in the "right" direction, as counterswing to the "left" centuries after WW2.

The discussions i was referring to were about psychological freedom, thus pure, unregulated freedom. Not necessarily comparable with anarchy or peace-love-unity and the likes. We saw what charles manson did to the latter, basically killed the dream, but being the symptom instead of the cause of the 1968's quick fade.
Mankind also tends to repeat mistakes.