Quote from: Farmer Bill on April 28, 2021, 08:10:47 PM

Quote from: Dabs on April 28, 2021, 06:56:47 PM

Quote from: Farmer Bill on April 28, 2021, 12:34:37 PM

...
Generated BIP39 Mnemonic 24 words.

I wish to store these words on a 2 of 3 paper backup and hide them.
It seemed a simple task.

So scouring through a book for these 24 words and assigning each a 5 digit code based on page number line number and position of word within the line. Then noting these down pencil on paper and hiding them would probably be meaningless to the finder.
I may just use the 24 words plus 1 method for extra security and commit this to pencil and paper in addition to being in my head.

Bro, dude, ... metal wallet. or engrave in stone. or something along those lines.

Take a look here: https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/

Or DIY it from some stainless steel flat plate. Stamp. Etch. Up to you. I'm going to try etching.

thanks for that, I did look into steel letter sets designed for the job.

Currently pencil on acid free paper. (Whereas in the past it would have been acid on blotting paper)

but not any good in a fire

I thought of etching copper with ferric chloride but steel has a 700F higher melting point and much harder and Ive got lots of scrap pieces lying around.
Maybe weld it face side inwards to shed doors to hide content.
project for a wet day.

To lose bitcoin when it was $300 would have caused sickness in pit of stomach.
But at current prices, the stuff of heart attacks.

A few thoughts.

First of all bitcoin security, especially in the "self-sovereignty" realm is still a VERY unsolved problem. Even current "best practices" are not agreed upon, and many solutions will bring us right back to the original problem. For example, a BIP39 passphrase... Obviously these SHOULD be used. But then, how do you secure THEM?

Doing this right is a balance of security and simplicity. If we try to do it in a way that is overly convoluted, or requires a very good memory, or would be difficult to communicate to another trusted human, we are increasing the possibility of a "foot gun". When I have thought through these I have tried to come up with schemes where I would combine a set of keys for multi-sig with decoy amounts in the wallets associated with the single keys, along with BIP39 passphrases, AND the use of exotic derivation paths. I began to realize that if I over-engineer the method in the name of "security" I am increasing the chances that I can make a mistake, or simply forget one of the things I did.

So balancing simplicity with security is important I think.

As to seed backups. I think the above stainless steel sheet is a great one. I am also a big fan of the stainless steel washers on a nut and bolt method, and have made several of these myself. I even designed and built a 3d printed stamping jig. I like that these are very compact and durable. There are lots of great hiding places for them etc...
https://blog.lopp.net/metal-bitcoin-seed-storage-stress-test-iv/

Ultimately, I am also coming to the conclusion that trust minimized services with third parties may be one of the best solutions currently. Lopp's Casa, or Unchained capital are good examples. These are multisig schemes that use the third party as a security net.

And unfortunately, for some (most probably) users a bitcoin bank may be the safest solution even taking the counterparty risk into account. Leaving your bitcoin on an exchange, or in your CashApp wallet is rightly frowned upon by we OG elite... but until we have better trust minimized options it still might be best for the masses.