Quote from: paxmao on Today at 02:30:37 PM

Quote from: DaRude on February 28, 2022, 10:34:37 PM

Quote from: OgNasty on February 28, 2022, 07:41:24 PM

Some of the horrific video clips I've seen from this war really illustrates how war has changed. Seeing tanks runover cars on the freeway like they're playing grand theft auto, or seeing cyclists having bombs dropped on their heads are things that are just unexpected to me and even unfathomable. I think most people just want to go about their daily lives without fear of some government squabble murdering them while trying to get a workout in, or trying to make it to work. It's pretty crazy that with all of the advancement of our civilization, war has turned even less personal and the loss of life seems almost expected. Personally, I would prefer the days of swinging swords to suddenly having your entire family murdered in a second as a jet flies by... If you haven't seen some of the horrific clips out there from this war, do yourself a favor and don't search for them. It's absolutely heartbreaking.

War, war is hell. Always was, always will be. That has not changed, if anything it became more humane due to public outcries. There is a lot of misinformation going around, which is understandable when literal lives are at stake, but I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, so giving the benefit of the doubt, your naiveness is frankly, shocking and perhaps telling of your overall selective world view? Unless you're really young, have you considered why you're just finding out that there are atrocities in every "conflict" and all sides? Why haven't you seen horrific video clips from previous conflicts, surely theres abundance of them on the internet? Perhaps they were less brutal? Or there were less civilian casualties? Or perhaps some other reason?
...
Sorry to burst your bubble, but your ignorance to suffering is really telling about you/your upbringing. And no, powerful don't bear the consequences, you can even sanction ICC if you have enough power, that's why everyone wants more power. "US sanctions International Criminal Court officials" https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/02/politics/us-icc-sanctions/index.html

On this I have to agree and add that Europe has risen its voice and started acting on the economic front only when Putin threatened directly everything that is dear to the EU and the US - democracies (even if imperfect), their ability to strengthen their relations to other countries if they wish to do so and to be free to enter into the most beneficial agreements they can choose within their possibilities.

In other words, Ukraine does not have less rights to reach agreements with others than Putin or than any other country. Forcing them into neutrality, hindering their rights to associate or extend their diplomacy is something that Western Europe just cannot accept. Putin setting terms on what the NATO can do or not do in terms of accepting members is not acceptable. Putin giving himself the Tzardom or all that surrounds him because "he would not feel safe otherwise" feels too much like the old USSR regime.

And do not get me wrong, I am no happier about the US intervening in Latin America than I am with Putin.

We've been through this before in the 60s. Russia tries to bring nukes to US borders. US blockades Cuba, disregarding its rights as a sovereign nation as well as all international laws. Logic was that nuclear weapons close to US borders is unacceptable risk and is an existential threat to the country, which overrules everything else. World got together, cooler heads prevailed, and world agreed that sneaky Russians tried to sneak nukes too close to US borders, nuke nations have right to feel threatened, and its better that nuke states each stay away from each other in their own rooms. MAD was born. Now, fast forwards few decades. Concept of "existential thread" is being challenged once again, nukes are getting brought to a border but this time with a side of more democracy, favorable trade agreements, monetary policy, and cookies. If this is successful, rinse repeat, offer great trading terms with a side of nukes to Taiwan, before China decides to bring great monitory policy, fortune cookies with a side of nukes to Cuba again.