Quote from: suchmoon on Today at 09:28:54 PM

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 06:54:24 PM

Once again you're just throwing articles instead of clearly stating your position. ICRC confirms that they have team in Mariupol, and that they lead the convoy out of the city Is there any proof from the Red Cross where they record violations or any shelling/attacks on said convoy, and in your typical fashion instead of addressing the question, you just pose another rhetorical question if Red Cross can fight off Russia and enforce corridors?

Tone complaint, really? You asked for reasons, I gave you reasons, not really my problem that it doesn't meet some arbitrary criteria that you made up or wasn't presented "correctly". You didn't substantiate your own position in any way, other than"nazis could've done it".

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 06:54:24 PM

I can see you clearly evading, so now on to the next part, care to estimate how many of those leaving Mariupol decided to evacuate to Russian controlled territory?

All territory around Mariupol is controlled by Russians. That's the main issue. Cities that have Ukrainian-controlled access are being evacuated much more successfully. So whatever straw man you're cooking with that, just save your time and drop it.

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 06:54:24 PM

But the reality is, UA side claims 14.000 killed RU troops and UN puts civilian casualties at 726.

Plus 2400 dead in Mariupol and more yet uncounted under rubble. Doesn't fit your narrative though, does it. Even though the UN itself says the number could be "considerably higher".

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 06:54:24 PM

no one who's even partially objective can seriously entertain the idea of Russians trying to harm as many civilians as they can.

No one who's seeing destroyed houses, hospitals, schools, etc could imagine Putin having restraint about civilian casualties but here you are. The relatively low numbers (outside of Mariupol) are more likely related to civilians sheltering and evacuating rather than Russian army having any qualms about killing them.

Another "article" that you'll claim proves Putin is the greatest humanitarian: https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-troops-open-fire-bread-line-killing-10-reports-2022-3

Facts are facts, hard to argue against them, can't expect anyone to believe mass media over UN. There's a much higher online presence and cell phone penetration in 2022 Ukraine than in any previous conflicts, so if anything UN numbers would be the most accurate for this war in comparison to all others. Comparing apples to apples, (so far) the numbers just don't support the narrative of trigger happy blood thirsty Russian army going out of their way to kill civilians over their primary objective. With that said any civilian death is a tragedy, as af_newbie pointed out, people loose humanity the longer the war drags on, and the more desperate situation becomes, that's why Red Cross needs to be allowed to continue to do what it does, without any shenanigans.

Quote

The minister responsible, Iryna Vereshchuk, said almost 800 private cars left Mariupol Thursday, with more than 2,000 people making it through Russian-occupied territory to the city of Zaporizhzhia by mid-evening.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-17-22/h_50c6d854024131e7fcb716d51fa4b8e2

This is from UA spokesperson. Was really hoping to see over 2000+ cars today, I guess logic being Russia didn't shoot at 2000 cars yesterday, doesn't shoot at 800 cars today but would totally shoot if all civilians were allowed to evacuate at once? How many do you think they'll allow to leave besieged city without food tomorrow, and how many they'll decide to keep in the city out of concern for their safety so people wont get shelled by the Russian side?

Wish Red Cross would provide some data, but nevertheless that's very interesting way of reporting, 800 cars left Mariupol, 2000 people made it through Russian-occupied territory to UA side. That's 2.5person/car. Either cars leaving besieged city half empty, cars are grabbing coffee taking their time and still driving through Russian side or ...