Quote from: suchmoon on Today at 12:11:59 AM

Quote from: DaRude on March 22, 2022, 11:43:12 PM

start getting military help from China

That would imply that the Chinese government is dumber than Putin, which I really doubt. China will sit on the sidelines for as long as they need to so that they can get Siberia on the cheap.

Quote from: DaRude on March 22, 2022, 11:43:12 PM

Anyone dares to do a cost/benefit analysis on civilians if Ukraine accepts the terms or at this point they're pretty much committed to just being a pawn and have no choice but to be a battle ground for this east vs west game to their last citizen?

What are you still babbling about? What "terms"? Denazification? Putin lied about everything and is still lying so there isn't any trust in him that would make some mythical "terms" feasible.

Funny how you talk about "pawns" in the same sentence where you're implying that the Ukrainians can be just told to accept "terms" and stop fighting. At this point it's very unlikely they would do so and it's getting less likely with every civilian death. Threatening them with more civilian deaths is not going to make them want Russian "terms".

There are no good options left here, I believe Ukraine is stuck between bad and worst. Fighting should only go on for as long as there's a chance to change the outcome. Ukraine doesn't benefit from additional loss of life once the the outcome becomes inevitable. West sending in encouragements and military weapons, rarely means that its in that nations best interest, just means that its to the West's benefit.

Do you think that Ukrainians stand to win if escalations lead to true carpet bombings and a huge loss of life? US set a terrible precedence on how to get a nation to accept it's terms (and culturally Japan was much more reluctant), and your whole strategy is that Russia won't do the same (minus the nukes)? When you're far away it's easy to encourage Ukrainian to escalate and risk their lives, with the added bonus of undercutting Putin, but is it ethical? History is written by the winners, just look at US/Japan relationship now.