Quote from: TwitchySeal on Today at 11:07:41 AM

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 08:41:26 AM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on Today at 07:57:23 AM

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 07:17:52 AM

So this was back on December 1, 2021 and we all know how that turned out, US pretty much said that Russia is not allowed to have national security interests in any country and NATO will expand anywhere it wishes. Because freedoms and such (except where it's not convenient for US like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Myanmar, Turkey etc...) \

Actually what US said was "No, we will not tell another country that they can never ever join our alliance no matter what."

Semantics only work on internal electorate, so each side can sell the news to their people, however they can phrase it best to them. Reply on international relations level was clear, Putin's concerns were ignored and he's made out into a fool who shouts hollow threats. With the current massive NATO "military exercise" my outlook is even bleaker than before. In fact we might've passed the point of no return for Ukraine. Russia made it clear that their red line was crossed. The failure in diplomacy is when it comes to a point where a war becomes more beneficial than peace to all relevant parties. Russia has people and indicated that its more than willing to sacrifice a lot for Ukraine, in fact Putin's ratings have gone up, and an underestimated enigma of Russians has always been their willingness to come together and unite the worse things got for them. US is totally fine littering non NATO country with weapons, and it can come out of this with another Marshall Plan for Europe to reestablish it's dominance and reset it's financial system. China will be more than willing to send a train full of gold to Russia, to kick this dumpster fire off, EU has no say in this (that's why Macron and Scholz running around like headless chickens). Russia declares full war and gets Ukraine, US becomes a saver of Europe once again, China enjoys stability and quietly pushes its agenda in the temporary vacuum. A shame really

It's not semantics, Putin literally demanded the no other country be allowed to join an alliance that he wasn't a member of. Obviously an alliance that was established to defend against the Soviets isn't going to let Russia dictate the rules.

Ironically Putins response has made NATO and Europe more united than ever and to some countries made joining NATO all the more appealing.

Military alliance against Soviet Union is expanding after demise of Soviet Union. Who's the military alliance defending against and what realistic options are left for Russia? Watch unfriendly military alliance absorb every country around you now, or later? It's hard to argue that angle when even the pope himself doesn't agree with you. Regardless, my point being is everyone has a justification for their electorate to consume, and we're at a point where escalations would benefit everyone more than a peaceful solution. Drums of war are getting so loud that even Pope's voice is drowned.

Quote from: suchmoon on Today at 11:46:39 AM

Defence is now "escalation"? Roll Eyes

How about withdrawing those tanks, then Ukraine won't need as many Javelins.
...

Try replacing it with other countries and see how it works, Russia providing defense to Cuba is "escalation"? Or China providing defense to Solomon Island is "escalation"? Or how about if China provided 10:1 defense weapons to Russia would that be escalations? But there's never ending justification for double standards so because reasons...
Point being, Russia is bad, so now any and all escalations are justified. People are made to think that deescalation in Ukraine is now literally in no ones best interest.