Quote from: af_newbie on September 07, 2022, 08:58:14 PM

Quote from: DaRude on September 07, 2022, 08:21:49 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on September 07, 2022, 03:36:34 AM

Quote from: DaRude on September 06, 2022, 11:59:22 PM

Quote from: af_newbie on September 06, 2022, 05:59:20 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on September 06, 2022, 04:43:09 AM

Quote from: be.open on September 05, 2022, 09:13:59 PM

I want to say that raising the flag over Vysokopolye and taking three more villages (by the way, which ones?) is too thin a result for a week of suicidal attacks on an open field as part of a counteroffensive that has been prepared since the beginning of summer.

LOL that's really weak sauce for someone who was boasting about capturing some villages in Donbas, didn't get any new talking points?

The "open field" is just a tiny part of the counteroffensive. All those bavovna also mean something. The disappearing of bridges and daily attacks on ferries basically makes the invaders surrounded. Ukrainians don't need to go guns blazing into Kherson, they can slowly squeeze them until the inevitable "good will gesture". Or if the brilliant Russian military strategists decide to send more ~~reinforcements~~ cannon fodder - that can work out well for Ukrainians too, meaning less pressure elsewhere.

Twist it as you want, but the momentum is clearly shifting. Capture Kyiv in 3 days -> capture some villages in Donbas -> try to hold on to some villages in Donbas -> ah shit, lost some villages near Kherson, no big deal -> next I suppose will be a retreat from Kherson and some desperate attempt to reinforce the land corridor through Melitopol because that's being himarsed daily too.

When their 98th and 45th SF brigades are wiped out south of Vysokopillya, they will 'strategically withdraw' from Kherson to 'secure' the land bridge to Crimea.

The talking heads on RTV (and be.open) will be saying that it is all according to Putin's master plan to defend Russian speakers in Donbas.

Kherson front will be forgotten, just like the fronts on Kyiv and Sumy.

The only way to deal with the occupiers and their collaborators is to physically eliminate them.

There is no other way.

So partial population of Kherson, Zaporizhia, Donetsk and everyone in Luhansk and Crimea?

Just the population of Crimea is 2,416,856. So how many millions do you want to physically eliminate exactly? Guessing priority for you would be eliminating the elderly as they were born in USSR and the most prone to collaborate? All of the kids too, or you think up to certain age there's still a chance to reeducate them in the camps?

Edit:
What about sympathizers, do you feel the need to physically eliminate them too?

Quote

around 2 000 people have gathered at Augustusplatz in Leipzig city centre to begin what has been proclaimed as a “hot autumn” to protest.
...
The AfD further called on the government to stop the sanctions war, which is leading to a sharp increase in prices.
...
Demonstrators demanded the “immediate capping of electricity prices” and for officials to secure direct contracts with gas suppliers at low prices, and further called for the resignation of the government and military neutrality.

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/wave-of-protests-in-europe-over-high-cost-of-living-energy-prices/ar-AA11vR61

False equivalence.

Demonstrators in Leipzig do not bomb Berlin, rape and plunder East Germany or shoot and kill civilians.

Right now, all pro-Russian material support in Ukraine is equivalent to armed aggression as it causes the deaths of defenders
and must be met with lethal force.

BTW, gas prices are dropping due to falling oil prices because of lower demand despite the supply shock created by Russia.

Cheap attempt at a straw man, now care to address the question? Do you consider people who get RU passports, work for and receive salaries and pensions in RUB as collaborators? What about people that vote to secede from UA (like Crimea)? Care to put a number, roughly how many collaborators there are that you feel should be physically eliminated? And the part about the children of collaborators, what do you want to do with them?

It is simple, if they have Ukrainian citizenship, they can stay in Ukraine. If they provided material support to the Russian army they broke Ukrainian law and will probably be prosecuted. Unless there will be amnesty for them. They will be free to leave the territory of Ukraine
and give up their citizenship, if they so desire.

All Russians without Ukrainian papers are tourists in Ukraine and will be deported.

There was no legal referendum in Crimea or Donbas/Luhansk. Read the constitution of Ukraine.

Dual citizenship is technically not allowed in Ukraine. So I am not sure how the Ukrainian government will treat all the people who
accepted Russian citizenship after Feb. 2014. Maybe they will consider them as Russian citizens without Ukrainian visas.

People who help organize illegal, pro-Russian 'government' on the territory of Ukraine should be eliminated, one way or another.

Either you have different definition of collaborators from UA government and Zelensky, or you have a lot of people that you'll be physically eliminating. Are you planning on personally taking the part in all of the murdering?

Quote

SBU identifies three collaborators in Luhansk Oblast
...
All three individuals could face up to 10 years in prison should they be apprehended by Ukrainian law enforcement, put on trial, and be found guilty.

https://news.yahoo.com/sbu-identifies-three-collaborators-luhansk-192500882.html

Quote

A total of 651 collaboration and treason cases had been opened against law enforcement officials, he added.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62202078

Quote

SBU nabs artillery spotter who gave Russians coordinates of schools for “intimidating strikes”
...
Russian intelligence recruited him immediately after Russia’s full-scale invasion; he faces up to 12 years jail

https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/08/27/sbu-nabs-artillery-spotter-who-gave-russians-coordinates-of-schools-for-intimidating-strikes/

Quote

Court sentences Russian collaborator to 16 years in jail.

He has given Russia information on the deployment of Ukrainian troops and the locations of infrastructure facilities in Chernihiv and Cherhnivtsi oblasts, the Prosecutor General's Office said.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1566739269091213312

Quote

Offenders face up to 15 years in prison for collaborating with Russian forces, making public denials about Russian aggression or supporting Moscow. Anyone whose actions result in deaths could face life in prison.
...
Some businessmen, civic and state officials and members of the military are among those who have gone over to the Russian side, and Ukraine’s State Bureau of Investigations said more than 200 criminal cases on collaboration have been opened. Zelenskyy has even stripped two SBU generals of their rank, accusing them of treason.

A “registry of collaborators” is being compiled and will be released to the public, said Oleksiy Danilov, head of Ukraine’s Security Council. He refused to say how many people were targeted nationwide.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-cracks-traitors-helping-russian-troops-84397927

Quote from: suchmoon on September 07, 2022, 11:01:24 PM

Quote from: DaRude on September 07, 2022, 08:21:49 PM

Cheap attempt at a straw man, now care to address the question? Do you consider people who get RU passports, work for and receive salaries and pensions in RUB as collaborators? What about people that vote to secede from UA (like Crimea)? Care to put a number, roughly how many collaborators there are that you feel should be physically eliminated? And the part about the children of collaborators, what do you want to do with them?

You're reaching desperately, up to and including accusing someone else of "straw man" while yourself providing only dramatized straw man arguments.

Look up collaborator in a dictionary. It tends to be defined as a person who is part of the enemy government or military, i.e. basically a traitor. Probably a legitimate military target in any case, so killing them during war is fair game. But that's not about regular citizens who may or may not use rubles. Or children.

You really either need to man up and show exactly which argument in my replies to af_newbie comment about physically eliminating collaborators is a "straw man" argument, or just quietly stop using long words you don't know the meaning of.