Quote from: suchmoon on Today at 04:06:17 AM

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 02:43:02 AM

Right. so now you're trying to say that I'm acting like I'm advocating to physically eliminate all of the collaborators? Roll Eyes

you're desperately scrapped the bottom of the barrel here think it'd be wise to throw in a towel

Add red herring / tone complaint / ad hominem to the endless list of fallacies you're exhibiting in this thread. It'd be wise for you to look outside of urban dictionary for definitions of words you don't understand. I take it you have nothing else to substantiate your ~~totally genuine concern~~ absurd attempts to imply that children and people who used rubles are collaborators?

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Now you're trying to claim that i'm disingenuous in my concerns with af_newbie's calls to mass murder after UA abolished capital punishment? And then you're switching claims and now generalizing that i'm exhibiting fallacies in this whole thread? Keep making up claims, surely eventually one of them must hit its target. Infinite monkeys eventually could write Shakespeare too.

Population of LPR and DPR is around 4mil, Kherson is 1mil, Zaporizhzhia 1,5mil, Crimea is at 2.5mil for a total of around 9mil, when someone calls for mass murders with obscure criteria, why are you not even interested in clearing up how many people exactly they calling to physically eliminate? Is this not a concern to you?

If definition of collaboration is so obvious to you where you feel the need to interject when someone tries to clear it up and asks follow up questions, mind explaining it to the Kyiv-based regional center for Human Rights?

Quote

Ukraine’s Plan to Prosecute Collaborators
New legislation remains open to interpretation by law enforcement agencies and judges.
...
Article 111-1 criminalises actions of setting the temporary occupation of a part of the territory of Ukraine, transferring material resources to unlawful armed or paramilitary groups of aggressor-state or which were created on the temporarily occupied territory of Ukraine.

Article 111-2 criminalises acts that execute or support decisions and actions of the aggressor-state, its occupation administration or armed groups, transfer of resources or assets to representatives of the aggressor-state.
...
However, only direct physical coercion - which renders a person unable to be in control of their actions with imminent danger - excludes the criminality of an act.
...
In Article 111-1 there are some differences regarding the voluntary nature as it indicates that some acts suppose that a person must act voluntarily, but others do not have the word “voluntarily” at all.

It is a tricky question, because we do not know how law enforcement agencies and judges will interpret it.

https://iwpr.net/global-voices/ukraines-plan-prosecute-collaborators

Now mind actually contributing to this conversation and giving us your estimate on how many people you feel fall under your definition of "Collaborator"? And if you agree with af_newbie's notion that they all need to be physically eliminated?

Quote from: TwitchySeal on Today at 07:43:40 AM

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 04:28:48 AM

We went from UA being unable to even attempt to break the siege of Mariupol in May

Unable to even attempt? Mariupol was besieged completely in early March. What do you think they were doing for the rest of March and April and why do you think the city was leveled when Ukraine finally surrendered?

Or is "unable to even attempt to break the siege" your funny way of saying surrender after months of fighting.

I thought it was pretty clear, no? Meant just what i said, no double meanings here. As far as I'm aware, there were no attempts from UA at breaking out its units from the besieged Mariupol. Civilians weren't let out and units within the city were fighting until they were "evacuated"...to Russian prison.

Quote

No way to break Russian siege of Mariupol and Azovstal to rescue Ukrainian troops, says deputy defense minister
...
Malyar said that if such a counter-offensive operation to break through the Russian siege of Mariupol were possible, it would already have happened, public broadcasting company Suspilne reported.

https://news.yahoo.com/no-way-break-russian-siege-134100267.html