Quote from: suchmoon on Today at 03:23:22 PM

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 03:49:56 AM

Is UA's goal still to take Crimea? If so they must start doing work to manage expectations, "we tried to take Crimea, so we ended up loosing 20% of UA"

Ukraine didn't try to "take" anything. If Putin hadn't invaded Ukraine in February, likely eventually some sort of solution could have been reached that did not involve Crimea going back to Ukraine. But now that's less likely as it was proven quite comprehensively that any kind of territorial (or any other kind really) compromise with Putin is impossible. Just like Finland/Sweden staying neutral is no longer an option, great geopolitical victory.

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 03:49:56 AM

I just stated my personal opinion if Z stays in power and continues to hold Odessa I will fully admit that it won't be a full win for RU. See you can do these things when you're not just pushing propaganda, and always forced to claim that whatever happens is actually somehow good for your side. Putin's claimed goals of denazification and demilitarization are pretty amorphous so don't really see a point in changing them.

Meanwhile in the real world, Ukraine is more militarized than it was in February, and nazis are fighting on Russian side. Another goal of "special operation"... achieved?

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 03:49:56 AM

I guess it won't "become RU" just as Donetsk and Crimea didn't became RU, doubt people living there care much about semantics.

People who can remember and compare Mariupol before and after "RU" came to town - they might care.

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 03:49:56 AM

Did a quick search on UA leaders in USSR and came up with the following:

Leon Trotsky-leader in the Bolshevik faction, headed the Red Army - Born in modern Ukraine, Nationality Ukrainian
Lazar Kaganovich-one of the main associates of Joseph Stalin, known for helping Stalin come to power, given the task of implementation of the collectivization policy that influenced the 1932–33 famine (known as the Holodomor) - Born in modern Ukraine
Nikita Khrushchev-Soviet leader, transferred the Crimean Oblast from the Russian SFSR to the Ukrainian SSR - Ukrainian wife
Leonid Brezhnev-Soviet leader - Born in modern Ukraine, Nationality Ukrainian
Mikhail Gorbachev-Soviet leader - Half Ukrainian (mother's side)

Stalin was from Georgia, doesn't mean Georgia wasn't/isn't oppressed, attacked, or otherwise negatively affected by Russia. I'm sure there were soviet leaders on many levels from many nations that suffered from the soviet regime. This proves nothing and surely doesn't mean that those nations now would want Russia to impose another regime on them, whether they call it soviet, "novorussia", or whatever.

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 03:49:56 AM

(UA source) in 2016 17% of Ukrainians have a positive attitude towards Joseph Stalin's activities, 1% of them admire. that's about 7,3million people in Ukraine

730 million people in Ukraine... that explains why Putin's invasion is failing. How did he miscalculate so badly.

A "yes UA's goal is still to take back Crimea" would suffice, so do you personally agree with the "even though we lived fine up to 2014, we're now going to suicide everyone in order to prove a point to the world of just how bad Putin is" strategy? After RU escalates with mobilization and US backs off and doesn't make any new significant military aid commitments to the UA, what exactly is the point of sending UA military to the front lines? Is it to become a bigger victim?

People who can remember and compare Mariupol before and after "RU" came to town - they might care.

Have you considered that people who can remember and compare Donetsk before and after the coup came to town and replaced their duly elected president (who they overwhelmingly voted for) might care too? But i guess that's where you say if they didn't resist and accepted the coup they'd be totally fine?

So you agree that Soviet leadership was fully diversified and represented with different nationalities all the way to the top. So Soviet famine that killed millions of Russians under non ethnically Russian leader is not that leader's nation fault, yet famine that killed millions of Ukrainians under non Russian leaders i still somehow Russia's fault?

I know that maths can be hard sometimes so let me help you out, 17% of Ukrainians support Stalin * 43mil population of UA = ~7.300.000 million of Ukrainians support Stalin. Now for homework try to count how many Georgians support Stalin yourself

Quote

Georgians display alarmingly high levels of admiration for Stalin—45 percent of them express a positive attitude toward the former Soviet leader.

https://carnegieeurope.eu/2013/03/01/stalin-puzzle-deciphering-post-soviet-public-opinion-pub-51075