Quote from: TwitchySeal on Today at 06:13:58 AM

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 05:16:32 AM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on Today at 03:32:37 AM

Quote from: Branko on October 11, 2022, 08:01:46 PM

Quote from: TwitchySeal on October 11, 2022, 07:44:40 PM

Quote from: BADecker on October 11, 2022, 04:54:54 PM

If you like Zelensky, you'll love his request for NATO to start a nuclear war. Why does he want the nukes to fly? Because he is failing against Russia in Ukraine.

Who is this Ukraine joker, anyway... who wants world nuclear war? Doesn't he realize that any scenario he dreams up, has already been thought of in Russia and all around the world?

How about the scenario where Russia fails to kill him, fails to take Kiev, gets their main battleship Sunk, Crimean bridge blown up, and after a bunch of other embarrassments finds itself on defense losing territory they thought they had secured last for good last spring, and now forced to mobilize 9 months after starting the thing they thought wouldn't even be a war by invading Ukraine . You think Putin thought of that scenario? Doesn't seem like it.

Putin was obviously wrong when he calculated that Biden won't risk nuclear war similar to Khruschev over Cuba missiles.
He also calculated that EU is not such vassal state to USA.

He seems intent to recalculate and fix his errors

Or maybe US intelligence has figured out that Russias Nuclear Arsenal Maintenance fund has been diverted to the Oligarch Mega Yacht and Ski Chalet fund for the past 20 years.

Kleptocracy has it's downsides - which is the main reason Ukraine booted Putins buddy Yanukovych.

Yes let's all trust US intelligence, after all they have such excellent track record. Thank you for supporting my previous point, great example of UA supporters pushing for a nuclear war. If you're feeling extra lucky today perhaps it's best you play a lottery instead of attempting to argue for a nuclear Armageddon, would give you better odds too!

When you're thinking about all the evil America did in the past decades, and doing those mental triple back flips to get to the place where all those bad things make Russia justified in starting a war with Ukraine, does Stalin ever pop into your head? The guy just rounded up hundreds or thousands of people at a time...and executed them. Almost 1 million citizens of his own country were executed. He intentionally caused multiple famines that killed millions of Ukrainians. 10's of millions of people were murdered on his orders.

For an American President to come close to matching the amount of pain and suffering that Stalin intentionally caused, they would have to first seize pretty much all political power. And even then, it would take years to get to the level that Stalin did.

That hasn't happened yet to America. It could start to happen some day...but it hasn't yet.

Appears it's started to happen in Russia though.

I'm not able to follow your logic here, you went from alluding that Russian nukes are non functional to Stalin? Where's suchmoon yelling whataboutism!?!
To reiterate my point, i view this conflict as just further expansion of NATO, or more specifically, US trying to pull Ukraine from Russia's sphere of influence with soft power (handing out freedom cookies during the coup of pro RU president in 2014). Everyone knew that there was no way Russia could compete with US on the soft power field, and that Russia couldn't afford to loose Ukraine, so doesn't take a political think tank to figure out the odds of tanks rolling. Germany and France did a good job and managed to stop Russian tanks from rolling back in 2014 and convinced UA to sign Minsk agreements which would ultimately mean Donbas would stay with Russia. Ukraine agreed, won some time which US used to litter the country with weapons, after receiving all the weapons UA did a 180 turn and started to pretend that now they can take Crimea back. RU finally started to realize that they were played, demanded written guarantees from US that NATO won't expand etc... and US pretty much told RU to fuck off, finally as a last ditch effort to make its intentions crystal clear RU did that idiotic show of force with a column of tanks to Kyiv, we all know how that turned out. So now here we are, was this the desired outcome for EU or RU? Clearly not, as both expected UA to just fold in 3 days of posturing instead of this prolong conflict causing great loos of life from both side but leading to the same outcome. On the other hand appears US has fully anticipated such actions from Russia.

I covered Stalin and Mao in my thread before, the goals of their actions was transformation of their countries' political and economic systems (collectivization etc). Such actions can only be viewed through the cost/benefit analysis, and it is my view that the benefit was not worth the cost, so i'm personally not a fan of Stalin. Unfortunately propaganda tries to deceive the uneducated masses and attempt to draw comparisons where there was no to limited cost or benefit. Like since Stalin caused death of many people, and Hitler caused death of many people thus Stalin is as bad as Hitler. This leads us to equate tragic loss of life in the name of radical transformations of the whole system to deliberate exterminations with no real benefit and in the name of ethnic/national/racial cleansing and superiority of the Aryan race above all. Even attempts at such horrendous comparisons, should automatically repulse anyone with an IQ higher than a rock.

But back to your point, besides propaganda value I don't see how any of this is even relevant? Trying to compare historical "evilness" is more of a philosophical question, how many deaths of exterminated native Americans is equal to own workers worked to death? Or how many lives of innocent civilians nuked with a press of a button equal to starved farmers? How many slaves killed just for being a slave equal to ideological opponents frozen at gulags? etc etc etc

Quote from: suchmoon on Today at 02:42:13 PM

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 05:06:07 AM

Are you intentionally ignoring the fact that tanks have consistently been the top request from UA, which so far has been ignored by US/EU? Oh we can't have them? Well, then we never wanted them anyway Cheesy

That doesn't explain why delivery of tanks would justify a nuclear response but whatever. I never expected logic from Russian propaganda so carry on.

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 05:06:07 AM

Mexico
Cuba
Taiwan
China
India

Makes me wonder if you got confused which thread you're posting in or is it just a larger-than-usual dose of whataboutism.

Anyway, after 8 months of killing predominantly Russian-speaking population it should be clear by now that Putin didn't come there to protect the Russian language but if you want to keep living in that illusion that's fine. For sane people though, all that BS doesn't mean that Ukraine can just roll over and Putin will magically become nice and friendly and will no longer threaten or invade other countries like Georgia or Moldova. That's why Ukraine is being supported in this fight and Russia is becoming a pariah state.

Quote from: DaRude on Today at 05:06:07 AM

Last i checked almost 1000km line of engagement still stands with RU even making some progress in some sections

Must've been a long time since you last checked it, let me help you.

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You're cute when you don't have a counter argument Tongue