Quote from: 1miau on August 09, 2023, 08:52:03 PM

Quote from: DaRude on August 09, 2023, 04:49:17 AM

Another anonymous forum investigative journalist uncovering false flag operations without a single citation.

You should read less Putin propaganda, you are already lying like Russian propagandists from Putler TV.
So, the expert Göran Swistek from my post above is "no citation"? Cheesy

Seriously?

Quote from: 1miau on August 08, 2023, 01:21:17 AM

Göran Swistek, an expert in maritime security, has enormous doubts about the one-ship theory:

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/nord-stream-andromeda-segeljacht-anschlag-sabotage-ukraine-krieg-102.html

Are you accusing me of plagiarism now? It's not a "citation"?
You are just delusional.

But to disappoint you even more, here's another German investigation where your "Ukrainian boat" theory gets rejected:

Putin's secret convoi

Quote from: DaRude on August 09, 2023, 04:49:17 AM

You funny, yes yes now Putin controls all western media.

Nope, except bombing and destroying Ukrainian cities, fooling idiots like you is everything, Putin has "achieved" so far. What a shameful record... Roll Eyes

Quote from: DaRude on August 09, 2023, 04:49:17 AM

I fully expect Germany to issue arrest warrants for those Ukrainians soon

Luckily Putin's clowns are far away from getting into power in Germany, so I have to disappoint you.

Quote from: 1miau on August 08, 2023, 09:10:23 PM

It's already your 5th post, where you are trying to accuse Ukraine for something, you have no valid proof for and Ukraine has no profit to do so.

I stand corrected, it's your 6th post where you are defending war criminal Putler... Roll Eyes

Seriously i have provided citations from major international publications with quotes of their sources in intelligence agencies all over the world, and best you could come up with is a quote from a German public-service television broadcaster with 16% reach in Germany citing an "expert in maritime security"? Pretty weak from the start but if your whole hypothesis is resting on this, lets take a look.

Quote from: https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/nord-stream-andromeda-segeljacht-anschlag-sabotage-ukraine-krieg-102.html

In order to blow up the pipelines, investigators estimate that around 500 kilograms of TNT equivalent would be needed per explosion. Exactly how much was used cannot be said because it is unclear which explosive was used was used.

Published 16 March 2023 with "enormous doubts about the one-ship theory" of your expert mostly resting on the half a ton of TNT equivalent. And just two month later on 26 May 2023 this was published, completely destroying your little theory.

Quote from: https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/nord-stream-anschlaege-hinweise-auf-ukrainische-taeter-verdichten-sich-a-b176fd6b-1258-47dc-99bb-6e9db544908e

According to SPIEGEL information, the metadata of an e-mail that was sent when the Andromeda 5+ sailing yacht allegedly used to transport the explosives was rented leads to Ukraine.
…
There is also repeated talk of a so-called "false flag" operation by Russia. Among those familiar with the process, this is considered extremely unlikely. Behind the scenes, it was even said early on that Moscow had no real motive for the crime.
…
In the cabin of the "Andromeda" the remains of an explosive suitable for use under water were found over a large area. It is said to be octogen, an explosive that is widespread in both the West and the former Eastern bloc. Investigators have described the explosive power of the explosive charges used as equivalent to 500 kilograms of TNT.
…
Oktogen is much lighter than TNT, could be transported by a relatively small boat, and could have been taken to the bottom of the Baltic Sea by experienced combat divers. The often-put-up thesis that the assassins could only have brought the explosives to the site of the attack because of its weight with a larger ship and possibly a mini-submarine is no longer applicable Intelligence services suspect Ukrainian perpetrators

Do you do any research at all before posting something? Or you just enjoy being embarrassed? Are you saying SPIEGEL is Russian propaganda now? Do you think they're lying to you? Did you contact them explaining how you disagreed with their theory and told them what you thought really happened? Did they laugh?

Quote from: paxmao on August 09, 2023, 09:31:37 AM

Quote from: DaRude on August 09, 2023, 04:49:17 AM

Quote from: 1miau on August 08, 2023, 09:10:23 PM

Quote from: DaRude on August 08, 2023, 03:04:27 AM

Tip about the boat came from the source inside of Ukraine of one of the EU intelligence agencies, boat was placed at the scene of explosions, explosive residue on the pipe matched to the residue found on the boat, 6 members of the sabotage crew are Ukrainian citizens. travel agency booking the boat was founded and controlled by Ukrainians with Polish bank accounts accountants and paralegals. CIA director and German intelligence officers are on record saying that evidence don't point to Russia. And found DNA matched (through his son in Germany) to a 26yr old Ukrainian soldier (not yet identified), who left Germany for Ukraine. At this point too many people are involved, and with every fifth person in Germany supporting AfD (and presumably many more in police/military circles) that they won't be able to keep this under covers. But nothing gets past your critical thinking, because through your hallucinations you just know that it was ~~aliens~~ Putin placed those explosives himself while riding a trained narwhal, you should contact all these publications immediately with your theory, so they can all publish corrections!

You've demonstrated that you're not even able to read your own quotes, to notice that most don't have "looks like" in them. So i don't really expect you to be able to read this either. And I'm sorry, but I just don't have the coloring pencils to draw it out in color pictures for you. But continue, do tell us what else looks like "Russia did it" to you, after all with your track record we're all very interested in hearing your next, spot on unbiased, carefully cited, predictions.

Unfortunately, your claims are (once again) without any solid proof. There's exactly no proof pointing out that Ukraine is behind it. This boat story is just too weak and doesn't make really sense, like the expert in the ZDF article has explained. But you just ignore it...
Everything could be faked by Russia to have a false flag, where Ukraine is accused.
No wonder, pro-russian trolls are always jumping on that unproven story.
You are a good example for that.
After 1.5 years of war against Ukraine, Putin knows he can trust his apologists. Cheesy

It's a big shame that you are trying so vehemently to discredit Ukraine and throw Ukraine under the bus.
It's already your 5th post, where you are trying to accuse Ukraine for something, you have no valid proof for and Ukraine has no profit to do so. It's just pointless for Ukraine to blow up this useless pipeline, where already way before it happened, everyone knew, that NordStream 2 would never deliever any gas to Germany as long as Putin or his war crimes friends are waging war in Ukraine. No need for any western actor to blow it up...
And when the war is over, Germany will have 100% renewable energy and just don't need any Russian gas.
Russia has failed miserably.
Deal with it. Wink

Another anonymous forum investigative journalist uncovering false flag operations without a single citation. You funny, yes yes now Putin controls all western media. It's your right not to believe what every single major newspaper says, or their quotes of gov officials. Just don't expect anyone to believe your silly conspiracy theories. I fully expect Germany to issue arrest warrants for those Ukrainians soon, then you'll have two options either claim they're RU double secret agents or Putin brainwashed all Germans with his alien ray gun. What's even more hilarious is that you're not even original in this thought, as covering your ears and ignoring everything is pretty much the current official position Grin

Quote from: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/

Biden administration officials now privately concede there is no evidence that conclusively points to Moscow’s involvement. But publicly they have deflected questions about who might be responsible. European officials in several countries have quietly suggested that Ukraine was behind the attack but have resisted publicly saying so over fears that blaming Kyiv could fracture the alliance against Russia. At gatherings of European and NATO policymakers, officials have settled into a rhythm; as one senior European diplomat said recently, “Don’t talk about Nord Stream.”

...
The European intelligence made clear that the would-be attackers were not rogue operatives. All those involved reported directly to Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, Ukraine’s highest-ranking military officer, who was put in charge so that the nation’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, wouldn’t know about the operation, the intelligence report said.

Quote from: paxmao on August 08, 2023, 11:39:07 PM

...

Finally we have something to discuss, it takes you a while to get of the irate responses and actually say something even if you have just one source and even if it is behind a paywall.

So, you base you accusation to the Ukrainian government of blowing up the NS because:

- A small vessel was around (definetly not at "the scene" which is 80 m below the water).
- That small vessel was rented by an Ukrainian company and sailed / operated from Poland.
- The vessel was in the area for 12 hours.
- Intelligence sources (take with plenty of salt) say that the US told Ukraine not to blow it up.

Anything else? Because that is not enough.
...

You can pretend that you're an investigative journalist all you want, but unlike your claims made without any citations, these are not my accusations, you're not arguing with me but with Washington Post, WSJ, Spigel, Guardian, New York Times, CNN etc etc etc...(which are really not known to sympathize with Russia, in fact i don't know what major publication did NOT pick up on this story). So instead of posting your opinions on anonymous forum i suggest you write a strongly worded letter to all these newspapers and let them know how they're all wrong and that they should retract their story, because paxmao just refuses to believe it, and together with 1miau have another theory of how it all went down with Putin on the narwhal. Post a link and I'll gladly read it if you'll get them to published it. I hate to be the one breaking it to you this way, but without citing more credible sources, no one really cares if an anonymous user is not convinced that the world is spherical.

Again, making things up - I did not ever say I am a journalist.

I do not make any claim, I clearly stated that I am expressing my view based on my reasoning on who has to gain from the event. I am not blind and I understand that there are other reasons why this could have been done by others. The Nordstream by-passed Ukraine, that is there for everyone to see.

However you are effectively making a claim stating that there is "irrefutable proof" - that is not an view or an opinion, is an statement of facts - thus you do have to provide such evidence. But you cannot, because whether you like it or not secret ops are mostly secret unless Snowden shows himself around.

I concede, you're absolutely correct! I said that Ukraine did it, but Ukraine is a country and as such technically unable to perform terrorism, which only humans are capable of doing.