Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 28, 2023, 03:54:37 PM

Quote from: stompix on December 28, 2023, 12:46:57 PM

The main problem is not how problematic is to get out, but how easy is to change that so you don't have to pack your bags and do it!

It is not easy. It never was. That is the hard to swallow pill. It is bloody hard to find consensus for a change in decentralized systems. Let alone, a change that will split the network into two separate. The history has shown that people will not follow.
It may be simple to your head, like changing a constant in the code, but I suggest you to confirm this assertion by trying to convince everyone to follow; they won't.

And isn't this the difference between dictatorships and a free decentralized ecosystem?
If people don't want to follow they stick to the old one, just as people didn't follow BSV they might stick with the 1MB block rather than the 4x blocks.
Why are you afraid of letting people hose?

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on December 28, 2023, 03:54:37 PM

If by "utility" you are referring exclusively to the ease and cost-effectiveness of on-chain transactions, then I can easily admit I care more about the overall value.

See how simple it was!
The only difference between you and me is that I think the value is threatened by the loss of utility!

Quote from: mikeywith on December 28, 2023, 10:47:07 PM

That is an interesting point you have right there, and I would personally say I care more about the value of BTC than the "utility" BUT, only after defining what "utility" actually is, you may think utility is BTC being a great medium of exchange, cheap and instant like credit cards, and that's fine, someone else may say the best utility for BTC is the store of value or the ability to transfer it without going through one or more centralized entities.

By utility I mean something that has an use other than speculation, you know that I'm more of a pessimistic guy and here is the simple line of thought for this
- first it was the novelty, the promise of a an unsored network, cheap and easy transactions that made bitcoin gain fame
- then it was the money, you could get stinky rich by holding coins, which made more pour money and made also a lot trapped in it, so you start having floors on which you know you won't fall though so here comes the so called safe heaven assets

But we both know that the days of 10x a year are gone, it will go for a few more halving's, a few more years of fomo but inevitable the mirage of getting rich quick will fade and as those money are pulled out with what is Bitcoin left? It needs to go back to the thing that made it a hit on the world scene but regaining it won't be that easy!
2011, sending money with two computers across the world without a 3rd party ...woooooww how is that possible!!!!!
2027...meh, grandpa stop talking about ww1

Bitcoin needs to adapt, and the ironic thing is that even the devs know that, that's why segwit was born, but you can't do half ass measures that would require we wait till 2035 for everyone to be able to open a LN channel, when even the bank of Zimbabwe can outperform this! I'm just saying you need something else besides it, gold is not precious just because some decided this, it was a precious metals since the first humans started loving jewelry, and art, jewelry, electronics it's not really Bitcoin's thing, that if we ignore ordinals memes!

I'm not saying to compete with Visa, that would never happen, but at least compete with DOGE!!! , doge for god's sake!!!! Doge!!!!!! Fudge! Grin

Quote from: mikeywith on December 28, 2023, 10:47:07 PM

The real question however is, can we keep the same level of security, reliability, and smoothness with a block size increase of say 300% where blocks become 12MB on disk, will that break the bank or burn the hardware of any node out there? certainly not, but will 12MB solve all the scalability issues? also no

All issues? Of course no!
But it solves part of the problem of migration to a second layer!
You won't have people migrating to LN with a $20 fee in order to pay less fees, and you won't have a critical mass of a few millions doing so when there isn't even enough room the blocks to do so. That 2035 number if for the whole population to open and close a channel once , 12MB and you're down to 2025.
Plus, it makes a spam attack 12 times more expensive, yeah people pay 6BTC in fees per block, will they pay 72 BTC ? Lol, no!

Even if in 4 years from now adoption spikes though the roof and fees climb again despite the 12MB blocks in the meantime you have had enough time to move millions to the LN for cheap, you have the userbase, you have the merchants you have the second layer full, not an ecosystem that barely thrives on exchanges moving money between them at this point.

/rant over

Meanwhile:

Quote

High Priority 109 sat/vB $6.53

Although the top is lower the wall till 10sat/vb is still growing , 224 worth of blocks by now.