Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 08:07:21 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on May 06, 2024, 04:36:33 PM

Fair enough in regards to the further explanation in regards to the various things that earlier adopters might have done, and surely there has been a decent amount of variance, and yeah some may have sold too many too soon, and others may have just sold portions of their stack. Some may have had conviction from the beginning and others developed their conviction later, and surely it would be difficult to characterize in general kinds of ways, since there surely have been some folks who might have had approached BTC in similar ways as me, and surely there are differences in the financial circumstances of folks and even their technical knowledge, and including considering details of their too.

surely people approach on btc investment differs, expecially in technical aspect. that is why we have different categories of investors and there approaches. the list below shows 11 types of investor.
1. The Beginner
2. The Bitcoin Maximalist
3. The HODLer
4. The Trader
5. The FOMOer
6. The Hunter
7. The Traditional Investor
8. The Ecosystem Expert
9. The Crypto Native
10. The Early Adopter
11. The Whale
The 11 types of cryptocurrency investors
you are right , newbies investor can never be compeard to the crypto native or whales in regards to your explanation of people approach on Bitcoin investment differs expecially technical aspects. if you read through the link I Sheard , the crypto Native suits your explanation even though it didn't appear as thought,

Yeah, but how could we give too many shits about shitcoins in this thread. The explanation that involves some kind of a need to learn about shitcoins seems a bit problematic to me.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 08:07:21 AM

but for now i see it as the perfect Match when classifying investor and there level of understanding and long expirenced in the ecosystem. sometimes I see you @JJG as one of them, i.e the crypto native. if you read down to the crypto native you will come across a statement like this
Traits of a crypto native:
1. Lived through multiple market cycles.
2. Used to the high volatility.
3. Understand the technological and financial aspects of crypto.
another one I would have also considered is the ecosystem expert. but I think you will be in good position to explain more better or trow more light to this link I shared.

There is a lot of mixing of shitcoin ideas in that article, so there are some good ideas in the article, but it surely is mixed up with shitcoin ideas, and it cannot even describe bitcoin maximalism without pumping some shitcoin ideas in there.

Of course, I acknowledge that shitcoins exist and are going to continue to exist, but I still would consider a lot of needs to learn about and to mostly focus on bitcoin without getting overly distracted into shitcoins, including vague references to crypto as if bitcoin was just one of he options instead of the one that all of the others is copying and correlated to.

So maybe if the article had been written from a bitcoin first perspective and acknowledge shitcoins as largely copy cats and/or affinity scams upon bitcoin, then they might have been able to describe the categories a bit better.

So that article does not really address very well some of my earlier points in regards to how various bitcoiners might have come into bitcoin in terms of their fitting into some level of early adopter and how their portfolio and personal learning may have developed and evolved through the time that they have been into bitcoin and perhaps some of them distracted (or lured) into shitcoins.. .and no I don't even consider shitcoins to be a complete waste of time, since there may well be some ways in which the various options to transact in different ways could be helpful in regards to bitcoin's freedom and self-sovereignty aspect, which surely freedom and self-sovereignty seem to be under attack in many ways in recent times.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 08:07:21 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on May 06, 2024, 04:36:33 PM

9 individual factors,

those are really 9 factor that influences people's decition on how to invest in bitcoin I would have loved to add more but I guess you have summarised all. it may be listed as 9 factor but deep diving into it it is actually more than 30 factors but summarised into 9.

Yeah.. there are likely subcomponents and sometimes quite a bit of detail within the categories, so there may even be better ways of describing some of them and pointing out some of the important sub factors within the factors. I just like to use it as an easy go to reference, but sometimes we might talk about one or two of the factors and how someone might try to figure out where they might be in regards to one or another of the factors, including how any of the factors can change in time, but still there could be some consistency within some of them over time too, which truly should mean that a person is going back to reassessing his factors from time to time and maybe making material changes to his approach to bitcoin based on some of the changes of some of the factors (and yeah, he might even end up being wrong in terms of his assessment of the factors and his chosen approach towards addressing such factors.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 08:07:21 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on May 06, 2024, 04:36:33 PM

By the way, I am claiming that my average cost per BTC is right around $1k, so yeah, I bought bitcoin cheaper and more expensive than that. I think that the lowest that I bought BTC was around $182.. but surely I did not buy very much because I had run out of money, and really when the BTC is dipping that low, sometimes we will run out of money, and I ran out of money for a lot of 2015 during the time that the BTC prices were in the $200s, and surely I have some purchases in the $200s, but really there sometimes can be difficulties buying when the BTC price is so low, especially if you already have a bunch of BTC and your costs happen to be way higher than the then current price.

I guess by then you didn't have discretionary income or was not yet knowledgeable about deliscretionary/ reserved fund or haven't been making attempts of keeping emergency or reserved fund. otherwise you wouldn't have allowed that golden opportunity of buying cheaper slip you off.

Things happen in life, and there are degrees in which we have to make adjustments if our cashflows dry up or our expenses go up, and so there can be varying ways to consider whether prior practices were successful. I consider that to be a fairly successful period of my life, even though I was going through tight cashflow times, and yeah there could be ways to second-guess how I dealt with it and if I could have had dealt with it better, but overall I feel pretty good about that period, especially since I did not sell any bitcoin and I continued to buy, even though there were periods in which I was not able to buy (or did not feel that I could buy based on my own then balancing efforts).

I do think that some of my thoughts have evolved through the years, and also my ways of describing things, so there were likely periods in which I already knew about various practices, but I likely organized them in my head in different ways than I do these days. Even before i got into bitcoin in late 2013, I had already been investing (including using DCA techniques) for more than 20 years, and yeah frequently I consider myself to be and to have had been pretty conservative, even with my starting to get into BTC in late 2013 and the way that I ended up choosing to start my investment was based on a 6 month budget that I established for myself and then divided that 6-month budget into 26 weekly parts, so it is was like a weekly allowance that I gave myself.. that I ended up extending an additional 6 months after the 1st six months had run itself.

It can be difficult to say which changes would be made, since we deal with situations from our current knowledge set and we try to learn along the way, and frequently there are going to be mistakes that might be known in the moment but other mistakes might not be clear until later down the road, but sometimes even the mistakes have levels of materiality, so that there might not necessarily be a change that needs to be made since we cannot necessarily know BTC's short-term price direction. .

and we could even end up getting our long-term predictions wrong, while at the same time, there can end up coming a decent amount of satisfaction that long term predictions end up playing out even more bullish than anticipated (in some ways).. since if I had said to myself that I would like my bitcoin returns to at least return on average similar to the returns of my other investments (which was largely 6% on average), but I was willing to accept a lower performance level, and surely if I might even say that in the first few years bitcoin was either negative or barely reaching 6% per year performance after 2.5 years and maybe even getting into its 3rd year, but after that the performance ended up making up for the short-falls of the earlier years... so maybe even now I might say, bitcoin has returned me around 75% per year on average over the last 10.5-ish years, and yeah there are guys who are claiming that it doubled every year or more, but I am not sure if those are necessarily representative results in regards to what happens to a large number of normies in the real world.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 08:07:21 AM

and I guess these where the predicament and scenerio that have captivated and change you. by making you putting emergency and reserved fund at first before anything,

You seem to be misreading what happened. I already had an emergency fund and reserves, which is part of the reason I never had to sell any BTC.. even though I had several months in which I was not able to buy BTC.. and I suppose part of the reason that I had concluded that it was not necessary to continue buying BTC is because I had already been buying a lot of BTC during all of 2014, and in late 2014 (prior to my emergency situation), I had already come to the conclusion that I had already accumulated enough BTC, and perhaps if I had ONLY learned about BTC, and I had not already spent a year accumulating BTC, I might have considered that situation differently, but I can ONLY deal with the facts of my situation. and really I think that I considered any additional BTC that I had accumulated during 2015 to be a kind of overaccumulation, especially since by late 2014, I had considered that I had invested about 10% of the value of my quasi-liquid investment fund into bitcoin, and so even though when I started in BTC I had not realized that I was going to have a 10% target, I had come to that conclusion in late 2014, and by the time we got to mid-to-late 2015, I was getting close to around 13.5% of the value of my quasi-liquid investment fund into BTC, so at that point, I considered that I had gone from my then established target accumulation level into a state of overaccumulation.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 08:07:21 AM

because if you had it then Bitcoin was at $200s you would have accumulated alot by now.

Sure there might have been some people who came into BTC in late 2014 and even in 2015 who acquired their BTC at that price level, but I have my doubts, and anyone buying throughout 2014 (such as myself) already had conviction in regards to bitcoin, so yeah sure, you can Monday morning quarter-back the situation, and say that you should have waited. You should have saved your money for the dip that everyone knew was coming, and frequently those kinds of claims are a bunch of bullshit, and you can see the same thing happened in 2022.. The BTC price dropped from $69k down to $15,479, and we did not see folks backing up their trucks and buying BTC between $16k and $19k.. yeah sure there were some who still had money to buy, but a lot of folks did not have a lot of money left by the time that the BTC price got down to those levels, and so they used their floats and their reserves, and surely you should know that you don't use emergency funds for buying BTC.. you use emergency funds to live and to avoid having to sell your BTC in order to live.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 08:07:21 AM

but surely I believe no room for regrets because there is no time that is too late to invest in bitcoin but the level of your accumulation and consistency matters and haven discretionary fund to keep the train moving.

You cannot invest into anything if you don't have discretionary income. So whether you know what it is called or not, your income needs to exceed your expenses in order for you to be able to invest into anything whether bitcoin or anything else.. otherwise, you are gambling if you are using money that you need for your expenses to invest..

And so with my own situation, I came into bitcoin thinking that I was going to hold whatever I bought for at least a year, but most likely at least 2 years, yet these days I think that many of us know more about bitcoin, and any new investor should be able to commit to investing 4 years or longer.. of course, people are going to be scared and even some of them want to try to play the wave that is likely less than 4 years, and so I consider those folks to be traders and/or gamblers rather than investing, even if some of them might end up changing their minds and decide to stay longer.. just like I continued to stay longer rather than ever making any radical moves to sell large portions of my holdings.. which also could be considered a bit of controversial stance - since we know that in 2018, the correction was in the ballpark of 85%, so that can cause regrets from a lot of folks in terms of not having had sold much or even any BTC during the earlier price rise.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 08:07:21 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on May 06, 2024, 04:36:33 PM

Also, I made several mistakes along the way, which I expect others to have had made some mistakes along the way too, whether they are earlier adopters or not.. and the concept of early adopter is surely a relative term, since it is likely that anyone getting in below $1k will be considered an early adopter to some, and anyone getting in below $10k will also be considered an early adopter to others. .maybe a bit later down the road, even though newbies to bitcoin likely realize that it is quite unlikely that either sub $10k or even sub 20k or $30k will ever be reached again.. Surely the lower the price, the more confidence that we might have that such prices are not likely to ever be reached again (absent some breaking of bitcoin).

it might be true but I doubt that " the lower the price the more confident that we might that such price is likely not to be reached again" because Bitcoin is volatile and anything volitille can not be predicted uprightly. despite bitcoin is the best investment, it can even fall to 0 even as we don't think of that. let's say around the ending part of 2021 Bitcoin made it way up to around $46,886.08 per btc. and fall way below $20k around 2022. surely most people never thought of btc to fall below $20k in late 2022 after hitting $46,886.08 around December 2021.

You got your numbers wrong.. Bitcoin went to nearly $65k in early 2021 and it went to $69k in late 2021, so yeah there were a lot of people expecting BTC prices to go higher in 2021 and perhaps even into 2022, but instead we got right around a 77% correction down to $15,479... , and yeah many folks did not expect bitcoin to go below the 200-WMA, and that was then around $22k, and so the BTC price ended up going around 35% below the 200-WMA.. which was more than expected, and even some folks expecting the BTC price to go lower after that.

Yeah sure, anything can happen and we should be financially and psychologically prepared for a variety of scenarios, but it still remains a good idea to make sure that you are also prepared for UP.. No problem preparing for down, but the problem that an overwhelming majority of folks have is their failure/refusal to adequately prepare for up... So there are ways that you can prepare for both, and most times, I don't spend a lot of time focusing on preparing for down, even though surely there are needs to make such preparations, but instead I prefer to make sure people are prepared for up.. which continues to be the overwhelming majority of the problem that an overwhelming majority of the population has, and perhaps even some of the members of this forum... failure/refusal to adequately/sufficiently prepare for up. and also fucking around with trading (or shitcoins).. which also takes away from adququate/sufficient preparations for up.

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 08:07:21 AM

but it fell to $16k in the late December 2022 in 1 year interval. meaning that no level passed can be assumed to be likely not to be reached again.

Use the 200 WMA for your largely measure of bottom and stop fucking around thinking about outrageously bearish scenarios. Yeah sure they can happen, and yeah sure you should be prepared, but it is more important to be preparing for up rather than thinking about downity scenarios that may or may not happen....including continuing to keep the 200-WMA as your approximation of bottom BTC prices.. even though sometimes it might get broken.. but it tends to go up and there is no reason to conclude that it is not going to continue to go up. .even though surely it is not guaranteed, as you suggested, but if you ever want to potentially advantage by having a stake in bitcoin, and even a lighter stake if you are so obsessed with bitcoin going to zero scenarios, then you have to be buying BTC and making sure that you continue to have some.. but hey you do what you like if you fail refuse to buy bitcoin and/or to keep a sufficient and/or adequate stash of it.

Quote from: Barikui1 on Today at 08:49:25 AM

Quote from: As-Soon-As on Today at 01:09:25 AM

[edited out

What you said is actually a good thing, but you need to understand that in Bitcoin investment, it's very important to have a source of income that keeps you going, because if it's from the money for upkeep from your parents that you divided and use part of it to invest, it will definitely be unsustainable on the longer run, because I believe that the emergency fund you are talking about wouldn't be enough to weather the storm when in serious financial needs, and that may compel you to temper with your investment, so it's best you have a source of income.

Another thing why I said so is that, like 20% of your income will be enough to invest in Bitcoin, and the remaining 80% can take care of your emergency funds and other expenses, but this investment plan you are using will definitely not be sustainable on the longer run.

You also don't seem to know what is an emergency fund. An emergency fund would be built up and set aside and it would be the value of something like 3 months or more of your expenses... so once you build it up you do not need to touch it. The part that you seem to be referring to having extra float in your monthly cashflow is not an emergency fund. that is merely extra float.. so if you want to take some of that extra float and designate it towards an emergency fund, or towards reserves or towards something that you are saving up for, then no problem with that, it gets transferred out of your monthly float and into some kind of reserves and/or an emergency fund.

So if someone had an income and 80% is expenses, then they only have 20% that can be used for investing and/or building up reserves and/or an emergency fund (that is also called discretionary income since it is income beyond their expenses).. .Many times it is difficult for anyone to even be in a situation in which they have 10% to 20% or more of their income as discretionary.. unless they are living with their parents and their parents is supporting most if not all of their expenses. .or if they happen to have a job that is relatively high paying as compared to their expenses in life.

Quote from: Hewlet on Today at 09:12:00 AM

Quote from: Samlucky O on Today at 08:07:21 AM

[edited out]

being too technical as regards the kind of investor you are is not really necessary the way I look at it because at the end of the day, even if you're a beginner or you fall into any of those category of people you tend to outline as the types of investors, it doesn't change the narrative that what's expected of anyone that's investing into Bitcoin is that they buy Bitcoin and HODL it while adding more Bitcoin during several consecutive times which is what we've come to know as DCA. Whatever category of investor you fall under doesn't really make any difference and to be even honest, some of those things You're talking about are just mere ideas that tend to describe a particular set of people that are already in involved in Bitcoin maybe for the short term benefit and doesn't in any way mean that everyone have to make attempt to fall into any of the category You've outlined here.

Every real Bitcoin investor should think of himself as an HODLer that's building his bitcoin for the long term purpose and any sort of idea like categorizing yourself as an hunter, FOMOer or even trader doesn't fit into the real niche of Bitcoin investments but might possibly become a setback that might hinder the holder from for being able to continue to DCA for a long.

You are correct. Those categories may well serve as distractions in terms of really helping to understand what is bitcoin or how to be an investor into bitcoin, since there are several ways that the category descriptions result in making it appear as if trading or getting involved in shitcoins is some kind of a positive attribute in terms of being a more sophisticated "crypto" person... so yeah, there may be a bit of a distracting element in the framing of those categories, even if there still might be a few good ideas in there, there surely is a lot of crap ideas within those category descriptions, too.

Quote from: Tmoonz on Today at 09:35:46 AM

Quote from: Barikui1 on Today at 08:49:25 AM

[edited out]

As a student that is not working allocating 20 percent from the money het gets from his parents might just be too much, he needed to allocate a more conservative percentage of about 5 to 10 percent in to Bitcoin and use the rest for his other needs so that he can be accumulating Bitcoin without stress or seeing it as a burden or struggling as a student that is no working but depends on his parents. However it is better to comfortablely go wimpy without struggling thou it will take a longer period of time to arrive at a good size of Bitcoin which is better than being a no coiner.

Huh??? We do not have enough facts to know. Surely when a person lives with their parents, they may well be living in an artificial world in which their parents are paying for most of their expenses.. so there might be more liberty to invest more than someone else would be able to invest. So yeah sometimes people living with their parents are not contributing to expenses, but others might have obligations to contribute to household expenses. I am not going to automatically assume that he has expenses that restricts his ability to invest higher amounts into bitcoin.

Another thing might be that his parents might have certain expectations that he buys things with the money that they give him, so they might not like the idea that he is investing into bitcoin with money that they are expecting to be used for his living expenses.. and so they might decide to reduce the amount they give if he were to tell them that he is investing with part of it... We don't have enough facts to know those things either, since some parents would appreciate any kid who might be considering various ways to invest or to be frugal, but they might not necessarily agree with bitcoin as an investment choice.. but then that could also vary too in terms of their knowledge or at least that maybe they should be grateful if he is not investing into shitcoins, to the extent that they know the difference.

Quote from: Mayor of ogba on Today at 12:42:42 PM

Quote from: Jerrycrypto2024 on Today at 10:57:32 AM

[edited out]

The example I gave in my post above is clear for you to know that a delay in someone's weekly or monthly salary payment is a good emergency that will make that person use his emergency fund to cover up until the person receives his salary. For instance, you used to receive your monthly payment at the end of each month, but something happened at the place of your work, and you got paid on the 10th of the new month. You will have no choice but to use your emergency fund to sort out your bills because you never expected that your salary payment would be delayed.

From my own perspective, that is not a very good example in order to need to dip into your emergency fund, since you should have cash float and reserves for those kinds of things to the extent that there is going to be some expectations that there are going to be varying glitches in your cashflow and expenses from time. Another thing is that if you are keeping larger amounts in your emergency fund, then you might well be taping into it more, but really that is what differentiates an actual emergency fund from a float and/or reserve funds, since floats and reserve funds would be something in which you would regularly be dipping into for various reasons, and sometimes you might end up depleting your float and your reserves and have to dip into your emergency fund, which surely should not end up happening hardly ever.. and maybe you make some mistakes or whatever, but most of the times you should be keeping enough of a float and/or reserves, so that you never end up having to touch your actual emergency funds absent and actual emergency, but yeah, if you run out of float and reserves then it is better to use your emergency fund than to use your bitcoin at a time that would not be of your own choosing, and if you end up having to use up two weeks of your emergency fund (for something that may or may not have had been reasonably foreseeable), then it could take you a month or two to build it back up.. depending on other aspects of your financial situation.

Quote from: letteredhub on Today at 04:40:12 PM

Quote from: Smilevictorobinna on Today at 03:59:22 PM

[edited out]

I do agree with what you all have said about making available a solid emergency funds, reserve and float. But the possibility of all of these be put in place depends very much on the size of the income of the investor. An investor with little size of income can't literally manage to keep into place all of these requirements strongly as dyke for his bitcoin investment.

Which is why my suggestion would be that as people invest in bitcoin they should always spread their reach for income source as to enlarge the size of your income to be capable to make room for emergency funds, reserve and float for a sure success to your bitcoin investment no matter the challenge that may arise. For no matter how much big what you earn from a single source is, it is never enough reason to stay reliable on it, go for other means as multiple income source is also the secret to achieving a successful investment plan.

The same principles apply whether you are poor or you are rich. You need to figure out ways to maintain an emergency fund, reserves and float, and you are the one that needs to figure out the size of those things.

Of course, if you add additional income then your discretionary income would end up going up, but having another job does not take away the need for establishing good financial practices, even though having a second source (or multiple sources) of income does likely help to alleviate some of of the pressures if one of your income sources dries up then you would have back up sources of income.. but you still need an emergency fund, reserves and float... especially if you want to lessen the likelihood that you would need to tap into your bitcoin investment at a time that is other than your completely own choosing (not that you get forced into it based on you lack of adequate preparations).