Quote from: coolcoinz on May 29, 2024, 07:59:06 PM

Quote from: DaRude on May 28, 2024, 08:07:37 PM

That's a big problem, you should always consider direct and indirect consequences of your actions. Geopolitics it a lot more nuanced than cartoonish good/bad guys. Expecting Russia to behave differently with Ukraine than US did with Cuba, is the definition of hypocrisy and double standards, so both must be either bad or good. I consider buying into, either NATO spreads to Ukraine or Russia is bad, ultimatum as being brainwashed. Guess that's exactly the reason why in this case no one wants you to exercise your critical thinking skills and look at this conflict holistically, just concentrate on this specific action in a complete void Undecided

You take me for a US supporter, which I'm not. The US did a a lot of bad things, especially in Vietnam and Iraq, but it doesn't change the fact that Russia is doing these things as we speak.
I wouldn't compare the stance of NATO to what Russia is doing. It's clearly on a different level.

Quote from: paxmao on May 29, 2024, 08:18:47 AM

@coolcoinz - By now you probably figured out you are dealing here with people who are most likely paid or otherwise Kremlin trolls. There arguments are always the same, regardless of the situation (Ukraine is a possession of Ruzzia, the West is evil, if Ruzzia does something bad the West is doing something worse, "we need peace... but with an Ukrainian surrender", "the western weapons do not work", "the western weapons do not make a difference", ...)

Facts are questioned, while alternative (but proof-less) reality is put forward. denial is constant.

It is very predictable. When they call for "brotherhood" they are calling for your surrender and their dominance (they will be the "Big Brother" in all senses. Ukrainians will not have peace, they will be sent to the next conflict fighting for Moscow.

Briefly, it works like this:

@Branko - Russia can do no wrong. If they obviously do, NATO is worse, and everything is "the same". If he saw a picture of Moscow burning he would post one of a fire in a dumpster in Los Angeles to prove the above point.
@daRude - May be two people or more. (a) Everything is always bad for Ukraine (collecting all the news that support that, while ignoring any oher). If Ukraine has an obviously positive news, then question, doubt, alternative reality,...(b) He wans peace - meaning an Ukrainian surrender, nothing else.
@BA - He is absolutely confused about nearly anything in life or... he works for China.
@be.open - I am not sure if a paid troll, but the user or users are the victims of watching the Ruzzian TV for many years.

I come here from time to time, usually after a few weeks break from posting in this thread to check if anything has changed. In fact one of my posts is on the very first page of this thread because I feel sympathy for Ukrainians since my parents lived in a country "liberated" by the Soviet Union and I know how people wanted to finally kick these liberators out of their country.

Russians were like neighbor's cows that wander into your field and lay there eating grass and screaming and cursing will not get them to move. You either have to get some dogs to scare them away, or use a whip. They were sitting there for decades drinking vodka, taking natural resources and giving nothing in return until the collapse of the Soviet union and protests of the local population made them run back to Mother Russia.

I'd never wish for any country to become a part of Russia, especially when that process is accompanied by what we saw in Bucha, or earlier in Katyn.

That said, you're really stubborn and dedicated, I give you that. Some Ukrainian officials should send you a medal for years of service.
On the other hand, the attitude presented by some Russians here reminds me of Lavrov. When they see you with a hand in the cookie jar, say it's not your hand. When they see you eating the cookie, say that someone stuffed it into your mouth by force.

I don't take you for anything, I'm just saying that viewing this conflict in isolation, as if this conflict is about a land grab (because Russia needs more land Huh

) while admittedly is very beneficial for propaganda, couldn't be more erroneous. Expanding military alliances that attacks other countries without UN approval, to your competitors borders while proclaiming to want peace, and then acting dumbfound why other countries view it as existential threat is really just trying to take the rest of the world for idiots. If you remember USSR so well, you should realize striking similarities between this and the pinnacle of the previous nuclear conflict where the roles were reversed. US viewing USSR expanding to a country close to it's borders as an existential threat, and prevented it, disregarding all international laws and that third country's rights to self-govern. History does not repeat itself, but it rhymes.

The root cause seems to be the brainwashed thinking that status quo should be changed and NATO should spread to Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Taiwan etc... for those countries to be "liberated" and be "protected", should sound very familiar to you. Georgia's government seems to have made a decision regarding use of their people in a proxy war.