Quote from: Churchillvv on February 08, 2025, 09:36:21 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on February 08, 2025, 09:01:15 PM

which lines up with time in the market is better than trying to time the market.

Wow! this lines is probably one of the best lines or statement I have heard so far. It's awesome to see learns covered in just a few words.

It is a commonly known proscriptive statement that applies to a large number of funds and/or assets that tend to go up in value with the passage of time. It surely is something that I have heard many times, and I am merely repeating, which even supports that idea exists in bitcoin that it does not really matter where you start to buy, as long as you start to buy and get started, because if you are in bitcoin for the long term, your investment has decently good chances to work itself out, even if you start investing at a time that ends up being the top. Surely, newbies to bitcoin have such a dilemma, but they don't have any coin, yet at the same time they would prefer to have their investment to be in profits. The preoccupation of being in profits is not important, especially in the short term, and if a newbie keeps investing regular amounts into bitcoin over a 4 year period of time, then his average investment amount will be similar to the 200-WMA amount, and the BTC price tends to be higher than the 200-WMA.. and if he keeps investing in bitcoin at a similar rate beyond 4 years, it is quite likely that his average cost per BTC is going to keep going lower and lower below the 200-WMA.. so then the question about whether he keeps investing or not does not really relate to the extent that he is in profits or not, but instead it relates to whether he has enough or more than enough.. and surely with many normies it will take 10 years or more to really build up their bitcoin investment, even though there may be some folks (not as common) who are able to front load their investment into bitcoin and to invest more earlier in time without overly stressing their finances and/or their psychology.

Quote from: Churchillvv on February 08, 2025, 09:36:21 PM

Of course you JayJuanGee have explained to a great extent yet I would still have add a little bit to what you have said, in bitcoin investment time spent buying even with the lowest amount is far more appreciative than trying to get the best time to enter the market perhaps wasting more time and as such the best price for one to buy may not come hence making guys who prefer to target the market before buying stay in regrets most of the time.

There are a lot of guys who make that mistake of trying to target their entry price, and they end up either low coiners or no coiners or merely having to buy later at a higher price. Surely some guys also get lucky and are able to identify a dip and then start to invest at that time, yet there also tends to be a problem with the mindset of guys who are ONLY seeming to look for strong entry points, they stop buying and they just wait, or maybe they just continue to hold money on the side for various times that they might be able to buy at various dips, and I really doubt that they do better since their psychology is not necessarily as committed to the investor who might choose to invest $100 every week.

Let's say that there were two guys who got into bitcoin around July 2017, and they each earned about $30k per year and each of them had about $10k in cash that they could invest into bitcoin, but they continued to earn around $30k per year.

One of the guys was trying to time his entry point, so he ended up investing $5k when the BTC price dipped to around $2,200 (2.27 BTC), and then he invested $5k a second time in around late 2018 when BTC prices dipped to $6,500 (0.77 BTC). In mid 2020 he was able to invest another $3k at around $6,000 (0.5 BTC).. and then in September 2023 he invested another $5k around $25k (0.2 BTC), so his total invested is around $18k and he got 3.74 BTC (average cost per BTC of $4,813) and maybe currently he is sitting on another $5k that he would like to invest, but he is waiting for an entry point.

The other similarly situated guy invested the whole $10k within a few weeks around July 2017 with an average cost of $2,500 resulting in 4 BTC, and then he just invested $100 per week from his salary from August 1, 2017 until today, which resulted in another $39,300 invested and with another 3.1213 BTC. So the total invested of this second guy was $49,300 with the accumulation of a total of 7.1213 BTC (with an average cost of $6,923).

Which guy would you rather be? The one who was more aggressive and frontloaded his investment or the one who was waiting around lump summing and ultimately trying to time the market, but whimpy about his investment. Sure they are both in profits, but which one would you rather be?

Time in the market does tend to both have a front loading element to it, but surely not everyone is able to front load their investment, so they are just able to invest as aggressively as they can be without overdoing it and hopefully not recking themselves along the way.

Quote from: Churchillvv on February 08, 2025, 09:36:21 PM

However I will encourage any one here or outside this community to stack up as much as they can now or whenever they have the capital even though they might end up buying at a high rate yet they may end up having much better portfolio than guys who would prefer to target the market before buying hence guys who buy consistently might end up being in much more profit after a consecutive year's of purchase.

It seems to be that if a person is ongoingly investing into bitcoin on a weekly basis within his finances, he is going to find himself in a much better position than the guys who are waiting for dips, especially if we are looking at the results over a couple of cycles. In the short term, the differences might not be very different, yet in the longer run such as over a couple of cycles, the differences between the whimpy and the aggressive will become quite likely to be greater.

Quote from: Bd officer on Today at 12:35:35 AM

Quote from: _BlackStar on February 08, 2025, 10:56:28 PM

Expensive is relative to everyone - but people who say bitcoin is expensive are basically orienting themselves and comparing its price between then and now. In 2019 - someone with $4K could buy more than 1 btc - but now, $4K can only buy 0.041 btc. Maybe that's why many of them say bitcoin is expensive - they are always oriented towards past prices. But anyone who has money can always buy and accumulate regardless of how many satoshis they can buy with their money now. The point is only one - bitcoin can always be bought and not everyone will consider it too late.

Some people only focus on the past. In the past, the price of Bitcoin was very low, now at $95k, they think that Bitcoin is expensive. Can't those ignorant people focus on the future? Will the price of Bitcoin not be higher in the future? Of course the price of Bitcoin will be much higher in the future. We only think negative that Bitcoin is expensive, we should think positive. A limited supply of Bitcoin, which will no longer increase in the future, will increase popularity and demand, which will make the price of Bitcoin even higher. For those who think bitcoin is expensive now, I don't know what they will think when it hits 1 million.

You seem to be pointing out why people with no coins or low coins just need to continue to stay focused on accumulating bitcoin without looking at price, as long as they assess themself to be in a situation in which they still don't have enough BTC or more than enough.

So there are even guys who have been in bitcoin for a whole cycle or even more, but if they had not been able to accumulate enough bitcoin during that time, and maybe they have only invested less than a year of their income into bitcoin (and they are mostly looking at how much the amount they invested had appreciated rather than continuing to invest), then they might be letting off or slowing down in their investment aggressiveness too early because they are distracted by the BTC price.

It can take a long time to build up a BTC stash, since even a guy with a $30k per year salary who had been investing $100 per week (around 15% of his salary) into bitcoin would have had invested around $21k and perhaps accumulated around 0.6 BTC, and surely he might still be in a position where he need to just continue to stay focused on stacking BTC rather than reveling in his levels of profits, so far.

Quote from: BADecker on Today at 01:29:34 AM

Buying BTC is only dynamic for us when a bunch of us buy it at the same time, so that we cause enough movement excitement among others, so that they buy, as well. We need a committed few to buy on an agreed-to date and time. Who should be the group coordinator? Let's set up a BTC buying club website. Ideas?
Cool

Sounds like a bad idea, and a waste of time and energies, including considering that Bitcoin is too liquid for what you are proposing.. .and Bitcoin is not a pump and dump shitcoin.

There are already BIG players engaged in those kinds of attempts to move and/or manipulate BTC prices, and sure they might have some temporary abilities to push the BTC price one direction or another for short periods of time, but surely it is becoming more and more difficult to accomplish any kinds of meaningful moves in the BTC price through such manipulation attempts, especially as bitcoin is growing and more and more capital has to be plugged into the manipulation attempts and to put at risk during events that may well not end up being successful and then end up recking those attempting to manipulate and getting caught on the wrong side of the trade.

Quote from: Stormisover on Today at 06:43:14 AM

Quote from: Bd officer on Today at 12:35:35 AM

[edited out]

In my observations i have got to conclude that it is better for anyone to say that they don't have the money to buy Bitcoin maybe they are struggling to even take care of their basic needs and do not have the extra cash to buy Bitcoin rather than saying it is too late, while some persons on hearing it is for the future they are cut up with the feeling of impatient and wish they were part of it when it started, I believe there is still hope for anyone buying now with the intention of holding for the future.

Of course normal people are always going to be challenged with choosing to invest into bitcoin (or anything else) and investment money should be coming from discretionary income rather than money that is needed for expenses. So people who have little to no discretionary income are going to be challenged to invest into bitcoin or into anything else, and if they are not sure if they have discretionary income, then they would not be able to invest and if they choose to put money into bitcoin from money they need for their expenses, then they would be trading/gambling and not investing... including that investing into bitcoin should be with a timeline of 4-10 years or longer, and without any expectations that you will necessarily get the money back, since no investment is guaranteed.. but still with bitcoin it is a place that many folks consider to have a lot of upside asymmetry, which has great chances to improve future options by investing into it..

Quote from: DubemIfedigbo001 on Today at 10:38:48 AM

Quote from: GreatArkansas on January 05, 2025, 10:44:59 PM

Best term for this by OP is, "Buy and forget"
By doing this, we are prone not to sell our holdings even when the price of Bitcoin goes down a roller coaster. And in this way also we are busy with other things so we can forget to check every time the market or the price of Bitcoin which will help us not to worry or panic just incase the price of Bitcoin dumps.

Before you forget, make sure to preserve your seed phrases properly so that you can forget today and smile tomorrow, failure to secure it, then you would forget today and cry tomorrow.

Security comes first and you'll need to be periodically validating that your seed phrases is still intact where you kept it , so it doesn't get tampered by human actions or natural factors.

The idea of buy and forget is not completely a bad one, including there are some automated DCA systems; however, as you point out DubemIfedigbo001 bitcoin seems to be a kind of investment that we likely need to pay attention to and to continue to learn about, including monitoring and/or managing our self custody. Many folks also cannot just buy a lump sum and then forget about the matter, so they are regularly buying until they reach a sufficiently sized BTC stash.

Bitcoin does seem to be more of an active investment kind of category.. .. even if some folks might not need to pay as much attention to the investment (or the price) as others.