Quote from: philipma1957 on March 19, 2025, 04:39:49 PM

Quote from: Derekfunds on March 19, 2025, 03:47:19 PM

Quote from: Barikui1 on March 19, 2025, 12:31:30 PM

Quote from: Agbamoni on March 19, 2025, 12:12:42 PM

Quote from: Barikui1 on March 19, 2025, 09:02:28 AM

Where it's really wrong waiting for the dip before buying is when you have no Bitcoin or less stash of Bitcoin in your possession, at that instant, you don't wait, you just buy it regardless of it current price in other to increase your stash as much as possible, then if their is a dip in the market, you might decide to buy aggressively only if you have the financial leverage to do so, but waiting as a low or no coiner is actually a terrible mistake in my own opinion.

I disagree with you here. You will be making a mistake if you wait to by the dip when you don't have any strategy you are using to accumulate. Buying on dips should be a secondary/temporal method of accumulating Bitcoin. The primary method should be one that you are using to accumulate Bitcoin on a steady till you reach your accumulation goal.

If you look at my full write up very well, I said that it's very important you buy and accumulate Bitcoin regardless of it price especially when you have less or no stash at all, but if you have gotten close to the peak of your accumulation journey, you might decide to wait for a dip before buying because you have the leverage to do so, and you know why? Because time is on your side unlike someone that is a low or no coiner.
But take note that it's not compulsory at all, it all depends on the person if he wants to leverage such a situation to his own benefits, because I know that not everyone that is closed to the end of their accumulation will act in such a manner.

I like your last line, the fact that I have gotten to the peak of my investment doesn't mean I will stop accumulating and then start waiting for Dip, to be honest it doesn't even make sense and it makes no difference because the time you are waiting for Dip, if use the that time to continue your investment it is possible that you can accumulate more fraction of Bitcoin than what you would buy during the Dip that is if the Dip will even happen or dip to the point you want to buy. However, real investor don't get tired of if investing because the more you invest and hold for a long time the more profit you are going to see so an investor who wait for Dip because they feel they have gotten enough Bitcoin is not a real investor.

I disagree. I think the method below is better than pure dca or buy the dip

say 100 a week dca no matter what. in one year you will do this one.
and 1000 buy the dip if we drop to 73k in one year who knows if you do this

and 4000 buy the dip if we drop to 59k in one year who knows if we do this.

Part of the reason that you remain a low coiner, even after 12 years in bitcoin is because you have these inadequate kinds of ideas and strategies. You also do not prioritize the building up a bitcoin stash prior to selling your bitcoin, so you have a trading mentality.

This thread is emphasizing the accumulation of BTC, and sure the title of the thread refers to buying the dip, yet many of us have already come to conclude that DCA is likely a better approach towards investing rather than buying the dip, even though sure, there is nothing wrong with supplementing a buy the dip strategy, as long as there are realizations that there are trade offs, since the dips might not end up happening.

Can you at least recognize that the DCA portion is the most important way to accumulate bitcoin for long term investors if you are getting out of your trading mentality for a moment?

Think about your proposed plan too. You want to suggest that guys (perhaps even newbies, since we have a lot of newbies in this thread) to hold back value 10x their DCA amount (which is 2.5 months of their DCA amount) and also 40x their DCA amount (which is 4/5th of a year of their DCA amount), which really presumes that guys have that much money that they are able to keep in cash.

You likely suffer from an error of having way too much set aside in cash, and you are wanting other guys including newbies to engage in such practices too, as if they were preferable practices, like you proclaimed. That is surely not correct, even if you believe that it is a good idea for you, it truly would be a problematic approach for a lot of the way newer BTC investors in who participate in this thread.

Perhaps after a year investing into BTC if many of the newer investors have also been able to establish their emergency fund and other forms of back up funds, then maybe they can start to hold some of their cash for buying on the dip, yet it still seems to me that buying on the dip is inferior to regular DCA, at least for several years of accumulating BTC.. even though surely guys have to figure out these matters for themselves, and your suggestion to hold back around 50x of their DCA amount for various buying on dips seems quite ludicrous and out of touch with both what newbies might want to do, including that they are likely trying to get exposure to bitcoin rather than spending a bunch of time building up cash reserves.. which is probably even another problem that you have.

I have personally built up quite a bit of cash reserves, but I have been investing int bitcoin for 11 years, and I had been investing in various traditional investments for 20 years prior to getting into bitcoin.. but newbies are not going to have luxuries of having abilities to build up so much cash to hold back for buying dips... if they did that, they would not have any money left to actually invest into bitcoin.

Another thing is that many times the bitcoin versus the cash exposure would likely be quite heavily allocated to bitcoin rather than to cash, yet the various other investments could make some difference and the amount of time that a person is building up their bitcoin investment may also make a difference, yet the cash on hand, would largely end up being for emergency funds and perhaps other various forms of back up funds that might not even be allocated for buying bitcoin dips, so there would be some luxury to have various strong cashflow management already established, and to have emergency funds and other back up funds established, and then on top of all of that to have 50x the DCA amount (like amounting to a years worth of their DCA amount allocate towards buying various dips that might not happen).. The more I think about your proposal, the more retarded and inapplicable it seems to the situation to most newbies, and it probably is not even a good approach for yourself in terms of your continuing to stay a low coiner after more tha 12 years in bitcoin.

I am also not into unrealistic dips.. since we may well never dip to either $73k (your first proposed dip buying point) or to $59k (your more extensive proposed dip buying point), and we were already at those prices at various points in 2021 and 2024.. of course, 2022 and 2023 we were much below those price points, yet there is no reason to even presume that there is a need to go back there, even if it could end up happening, we should not be fucking up our bitcoin buys by holding back a bunch of value for potentially buying dips that might not happen, rather than buying regularly, consistently, persistently and ongoingly without preoccupying ourselves with price, especially if we are into our first whole bitcoin cycle or even if we are within our first cycle and a half (6-years-ish)...

Surely, on my own personal level, I have already put into place buy orders on the way down which are every $3k and then every $2,500, then every $2k and then every $1,500 and then every $1k down to $27k, yet I have had my bitcoin holdings growing for more than 11 years... Guys here are mostly not in such a situation and they are still in various stages of their accumulation stage, and they might not have had even been able to front load their bitcoin investment in any kind of way. I doubt that newbie bitcoiners are really in a place to be holding back such quantities of money for buying dips, even though surely I would not mind guys having 5-10 buy orders that might each be around 2x or their normal DCA amount.. but still that might also be quite presumptive of down prices, and not sufficiently focused on ongoing buying of bitcoin persistently and perhaps even aggressively, which is likely what bitcoin an overwhelming majority of newbies need to be focusing their efforts on doing in their first cycle or cycle and a half or so.

Quote from: POPOLUV on March 19, 2025, 05:45:46 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 19, 2025, 12:32:43 AM

[edited out]

... we as a Bitcoiner didn't give us the guarantee that we are better than those that are not into it but we investment to make life different for ourselves not living the life of competition.

We could consider that we are competing against different versions of ourselves in order to make ourselves a better self with bitcoin than what we would have had been without bitcoin.

Quote from: bitcoin_mining on March 19, 2025, 05:55:49 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 18, 2025, 08:30:46 PM

Quote from: bitcoin_mining on March 18, 2025, 07:19:53 PM

That is, I am clearing this matter here, suppose an investor invests 100 dollars every week and the market did not change much in those few weeks that he invested consistently but after a few days the market dumped a lot and at that time that investor bought more bitcoins with more money during the market low but he will have a good chance of more profit in the future.

If he has a budget of $100 per week to buy bitcoin, then where is he going to get the extra money? Are you trying to suggest that he actualy has more than $100 per week, but he has been holding back some money in order to buy the dip? Do you believe that he is advantaged by the practice of holding back some of his value, or are you suggesting that there are not any trade offs for the guy who is holding back value to be buying on dips that may or may not end up happening.

I have only mentioned investing $100 per week to make the idea of investing clear. For example, this does not mean that every investor must invest $100 a week. Before talking about investing in bitcoins I have talked about the DCA investment strategy and I have made it clear that in this investment strategy an investor can invest any amount of money at any time. If my post is read by a new investor then he may like the point as stated in the beginning and he may not take seriously the amount I have used to illustrate the case since I am using the following points as an example. Bitcoin is a reliable investment platform to invest in. If it is possible for a person to invest $100 a week, I think he should invest $100.

You are not grappling with the point that I made.

you can use whatever amount that you like, yet your budget is not magically whatever you say that it is.

if you have $100 per week that you are choosing to invest into bitcoin, yet you also are supposedly saving some money in order to buy the dip, you have to have had purposefully chosen to hold that extra money on the side rather than buying bitcoin right away. You cannot just make up facts and act as if there are not any trade offs.. as if the money to buy the dip suddenly appears. The money to buy the dip has to come from somewhere, and if you had been buying bitcoin every week with all of your budget, you are not going to suddenly have more money if you already spent it.

Otherwise if you are choosing to prioritize buying the dip, then you are not going to be buying as much with your DCA, and so if the dip does not happen, then you have to be willing to accept that you had money that you failed/refused to buy when you could have had done so.

Quote from: bitcoin_mining on March 19, 2025, 05:55:49 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 18, 2025, 08:30:46 PM

Quote from: bitcoin_mining on March 18, 2025, 07:19:53 PM

That is, I am clearing this matter here, suppose an investor invests 100 dollars every week and the market did not change much in those few weeks that he invested consistently but after a few days the market dumped a lot and at that time that investor bought more bitcoins with more money during the market low but he will have a good chance of more profit in the future.

If he has a budget of $100 per week to buy bitcoin, then where is he going to get the extra money? Are you trying to suggest that he actualy has more than $100 per week, but he has been holding back some money in order to buy the dip? Do you believe that he is advantaged by the practice of holding back some of his value, or are you suggesting that there are not any trade offs for the guy who is holding back value to be buying on dips that may or may not end up happening.

There is no problem with the amount changing, basically the investment will depend on an investor's income.

Why don't you give me some actual numbers then, instead of acting like money all of a sudden comes out of thin air when there is a dip.

Give some numbers instead of just trying to act as if you have figured out the perfect solution without any trade-offs, when you have not. There are always going to be trade offs, and you have the discretion to completely decide the trade offs.. .and to live with the consequences.

Quote from: bitcoin_mining on March 19, 2025, 05:55:49 PM

If every investor can invest $10 every week then his investment amount at the end of one month is $40 before.

There are 52 weeks in a year, and so generally there are 4.3 weeks per month. In other words there are 4 weeks out of every year that have 5 weeks rather than 4 weeks, that is if we might be sticking to a particular day of the year, and yeah, so the weeks overlap the months since every month does not have 28 days.

Quote from: bitcoin_mining on March 19, 2025, 05:55:49 PM

And the 10 dollars he invests is not the full amount of his income. Rather, I mean the investor if he is extra serious about his investment then he can consistently invest a portion of his income and set aside some money from the rest of the income so that he can use that money to buy more bitcoins when the opportunity arises.
Now I have mentioned $100 every week and seeing that the investor has to invest $100 this is not the case.

I was merely referring to your describing that you were going to all of a sudden have money to buy the dips. If you are not completely spending your whole budget to buy bitcoin every week, then you would be saving some money for dips, yet the price may or may not end up dipping from whatever point that you are expecting it to dip.

Quote from: ginsan on March 19, 2025, 06:17:35 PM

Quote from: bitcoin_mining on March 19, 2025, 05:55:49 PM

[edited out]

In my opinion, starting an investment is like learning something new, so we can start with our ability and can increase the budget to be bigger if we are not burdened.

Starting an investment is very simple, we just buy and save, no need to know more if we are still beginners. The thing that we must strengthen in ourselves when starting an investment is of course our mental readiness because bitcoin does not guarantee an increase when we buy. So mental readiness is very necessary for novice investors in the long-term investment journey.

Of course, budget adjustments can be adjusted if our discretionary income increases and can be adjusted to buy bitcoin more aggressively.

If we have a fairly non-aggressive approach, then we can just set our weekly buy amounts and forget it. We might even consider some of the passive approaches to investing into bitcoin or even the spaced out (once a month) ways of investing into bitcoin or guys waiting for dips that might not happen, we could likely consider those to be more whimpy variations of investing into bitcoin. Yet the more aggressive that we are choosing to be in our bitcoin investment in terms of regularity and in terms of using decently high portions of our discretionary income for bitcoin investing, then we have to end up being more organized and to have stronger cashflow management practices, and including that perhaps sometimes our back up funds will rescue us if we end up making calculation mistakes or perhaps overdoing our investment on short-time bases. If we have strong cashflow management systems and back up funds, we can also end up having resources to rescue ourselves from our own mistakes. when we are pushing our level of aggressiveness as much as we think that we are able to do without hopefully overdoing it... .