Quote from: BITCOIN4X on April 13, 2025, 07:55:10 PM

Quote from: CageMabok on April 13, 2025, 03:25:55 PM

Quote from: Y3shot on April 13, 2025, 11:17:53 AM

~Snip

Your direction is very appropriate to be understood by those who are still afraid of the condition of the decline in the price of Bitcoin, even though when there is a decline in price, everyone must dare to act more aggressively in buying because Bitcoin does not always experience a decline in price and is not always stagnant at a certain price.

Accumulation is of course recommended and I'm sure the average investor and holder has such a plan, but the problem is the additional budget. I really wanted to accumulate as much as I could when the price of bitcoin dropped to $74k a few days ago, but I had to skip it because I didn't have any extra budget. I don't want to use a reserve budget that is enough to cover my and my family's needs for the next few months to accumulate, that's too risky and not part of my plan.

I agree that markets will recover over time after dumping, but using reserve budgets (not additional budgets) to do so is not always justified. The reserve budget and additional budget for accumulation must be different, this is an investment approach that I think is safe for the long term.

You describe the exact dilemma that so many people have if they are perhaps regularly investing into bitcoin on a weekly basis. They are also paying their regular expenses on a weekly basis prior to even investing into bitcoin. In the meantime, these bitcoin accumulators might be holding aside some emergency funds, and then they might have some reserve funds that are set aside for various kinds of purposes, so then maybe parts of their reserve fund is flexible and meaning that they might have various things that they might use it for, yet maybe some parts are not very flexible because parts of the reserve fund might be held for specific purposes and a kind of expenses that needs to be taken care of in the near future.

Sure maybe there are some optionalities to the expenses, but then there would be ramifications to use that allocated money to spend on bitcoin investing, since any money that is put into bitcoin would presumptively be locked away for 4-10 years or longer, so the money that is placed into bitcoin is known to no longer be available once it is spent.

If a bitcoin price dip comes and there is money available, but that money is allocated to other things, then there may well be little to no extra money available to buy bitcoin beyond the weekly DCA buys that are presumptively taking place. So then there might be questions about holding aside some specific money for bitcoin and purposefully holding the money aside for bitcoin has the dilemma in regards to why hold the money rather than just buying right away with that money.

Some guys presume that it is easy to buy bitcoin on dips, yet there are trade offs and there is ONLY so much money that is available, especially if we are keeping track of which money is available for which things.. and if we do not want to put ourselves into a situation in which we have to dip into our emergency funds for anything other than an actual emergency.

Quote from: BITCOIN4X on April 13, 2025, 07:55:10 PM

Quote from: CageMabok on April 13, 2025, 03:25:55 PM

And for those who like to hold Bitcoin for a long time without thinking about selling for profit, usually people who have a mindset like that will never stay silent from continuing to buy when they see a decline in the price of Bitcoin in the market. I quite agree with what you said because if there is still fear in buying when seeing a decline in price, how can someone expect something bigger through Bitcoin in the future when they themselves still do not have the courage to make wiser decisions for themselves.

In fact, long-term bitcoin holders actually earn profits worth it with any risk considered.

I am not sure what you mean BITCOIN4X because frequently when we are engaged in investing, we may well have a lot of profits on paper, yet none of those profits are realized. They are locked up, and surely they can give us a sense of security, especially if we might also be assessing their value in terms of the 200-WMA so that we can have some sense of bottom prices (bottom values) too, and if we are measuring our bitcoin values from bottom prices and we might have had built up a bitcoin portfolio size that is several times our anticipated annual expenses, then we get the sense that we might be getting close to either being able to live off of our bitcoin or to be able to supplement our living expenses with our bitcoin...

but, yeah, it could take a couple of cycles or more to get to such a status, depending on how persistent and/or aggressive that we have historically been in our bitcoin accumulation journey.

Quote from: BITCOIN4X on April 13, 2025, 07:55:10 PM

I've never heard of them experiencing a total loss just from holding it, unless they lost access to their storage wallet or something bad happened that resulted in the loss of bitcoins from their wallet. Long-term holders always have the opportunity to make big profits, but eventually they will also sell and reconstruct their portfolio.

Surely if some of the longer term bitcoin holders are setting their bitcoin aside and making sure that they do not lose access to their coins, then surely they are going to be in a good position, yet at the same time, there may be some portion of their stash that they need to continue to keep active and to attempt to remain assured that they have a couple of ways (at least) of being able to transact with their BTC or to cash out, whether in increments or in larger quantities.

Even with your own forum registration date BITCOIN4X of more than 7 years (congratulations), it has become more and more possible that you have had been able to accumulate a decent amount of bitcoin in which you can start to feel assured that you have enough bitcoin or perhaps more than enough bitcoin... sure, maybe you also made mistakes along the way, so none of us can be sure about how close you might be towards reaching targets in which you might not have to continue to focus on bitcoin accumulation.

Quote from: Mr Reporter on April 13, 2025, 09:32:39 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 13, 2025, 07:05:20 PM

Quote from: bitcoin_mining on April 13, 2025, 05:41:50 PM

Quote from: Makus on April 11, 2025, 09:20:42 PM

Well I can't blame them for panicking during price changes because their reaction to price changes is based on their knowledge about bitcoin, most of them haven't experienced any sort of investment that is as volatile as bitcoin, and aside that their government could have inputed a wrong impression about bitcoin on them that bitcoin is bad or have shown no interest in the adoption of bitcoin making them have trust issues when they see price in a bearish movement. All they need is enough knowledge to understand that for price to go up, it means the market is volatile and volatility doesn't affect uptrend only, it also plays around the downtrend but the major movements of bitcoin price has been in an uptrend irrespective of the minor bearish seasons we see along the journey. Sometimes experience is the best teacher because if they finally get to experience a circle then they can see the whole picture of where the major price is heading to, that will help them build confidence in the market.

When I was new to investing, I used to get very excited and if the Bitcoin market was dumping and I had my investment at that time, I would get excited and sometimes I would think that I should sell my investment. But at that time, I tried to convince myself and always thought that I had invested for a long time and I had invested for some good profit from this investment, so if I sell my investment now with excessive volatility due to this temporary change, then I may not get this investment opportunity later. In this way, I have come to this stage of investing by gradually calming my mind and watching the market movement.

Now after investing in Bitcoin, I do not want to watch the market too much because my goal is to keep the investment for a long time and during this long time, I will maintain the continuity of the investment by adopting the DCA strategy.

I know that I will have to face many challenges during this long time, so I am mentally prepared in advance and also financially prepared so that I do not break down mentally and do not face financial danger.

It tends to be better to make sure that you are investing in a sustainable way rather than trying to be too aggressive and then having to sell some of your stash because you were not otherwise making sure that you had funds for your various life expenses.

So after 15-20 years investing, it is better to still be in the game rather than to end up being a no coiner because you screwed up and you were too greedy.

well when you mean staying in the game of accumulation consistently investing and managing risk can help newbies investors stay in the game and potentially benefit long term growth in the accumulation system of bitcoin investment, and also investing successfully often requires patience and willingness to ride out market fluctuations, as a investor let take note on this adopting a sustainable investment approach you can increase your chances of long term success and avoid common pitfalls.

Even if we might be assuming that we all understand that it is better to be investing rather than trying to trade, then even within the class of investors, it is better that we attempt to engage in practices that we can still be in the game (meaning holding most if not all of our bitcoin 15-20 years down the road).

there are some folks who end up engaging in various kinds of risky behaviors with their bitcoin, including sometimes if they are getting too greedy in their accumulation of bitcoin, they might end up being better off to be less greedy and to have a smaller bitcoin stash rather than putting their stash at risk and not ending up with any bitcoin after they might have had spent years and years building it up.

Quote from: Derekfunds on April 13, 2025, 10:36:48 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 13, 2025, 02:57:14 PM

I think that you are correct Derekfunds. There is some kind of a ambiguity and possible contradiction in the ways that MusaPk is talking about the building of capital.

MusaPk might be saying the right thing though but the way he/she used the world and sentence may not be correct because it was sounding more like trading because it is only trading you will see people talking about profit and increasing capital and someone who is new can be mislead because of how the information was been passed across it, and even in school it do happen sometime, a lecturer can be saying the right thing but will not present it well and the student will write exam and fail likewise the student too, sometimes they will have an idea but they won't write it well so we should try to make everything simple and easy for the sake of investor that are new here.

Yeah, but you Derekfunds took the matter to an extreme that I was not even suggesting about what MusaPk was saying.

Quote from: Derekfunds on April 13, 2025, 10:36:48 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on April 13, 2025, 02:57:14 PM

It seems to be reasonable to presume that over time, such as 4-10 years or more that bitcoin's price trend it more likely to be up rather than down or sideways, even though surely it is not guaranteed to be up, even in a longer time period. surely we have to figure out how to invest in accordance with our budget and in accordance with recognizing bitcoin is amongst the best, if not the best, place to put time, energy and value, even while at the same time recognizing/appreciating that profits are not guaranteed.

In 4-10 years time there is every possibility that the price of Bitcoin will go up but that still doesn't mean the behavior or characteristics of Bitcoin is only upward and just like you said the upward movement sometimes is not even guarantee but because of the potential Bitcoin has and have proven over the years, we can say that it will go up in this time interval and like I said earlier we shouldn't worry about the up and down since we are investing for long term.

We can likely assess our bitcoin investment as we go, and surely the more bitcoin that we accumulate and the more that we study bitcoin, we likely will come to develop various ways to valuate our bitcoin holdings within our own 9 individual factors in order to figure out if we might need to tweak any of our systems, so if for example, we start out mostly focusing on accumulating bitcoin and building up our various back up funds and strengthening our cashflow management, then after 4 years, we may well be in a good place in regards to those matters, and we might consider how far along we might be in regards to the size of our bitcoin holdings in light of our anticipated expenses in terms of our expected standard of living. Surely guys who are getting close to or even exceeding the investment of a whole years of expenses into bitcoin might well have also seen some appreciation in the value, but yeah, there might be ways of assessing the value of their holdings by using spot price and also contrasting that with the 200-WMA to figure out whether they have enough or if they might have to continue building at the same level of aggressiveness or some other approach.

Quote from: Sonia_123 on April 13, 2025, 11:00:53 PM

Quote from: Zanab247 on April 13, 2025, 06:56:10 PM

[edited out]

As a Bitcoin investor it is important that we don't give too much attention on profits we are to make even if we know that we are going to make reasonable profit within or after 4-10 years and above, our focus should be mainly on how we can continueosly grow our Bitcoin stash within this period of our long-term

Our profits may well have had helped us to have a larger holdings and to be close to our bitcoin accumulation goal.

Previously I had given some variation of the guy who might have had been investing 15% of his income into bitcoin, and perhaps a guy who had an income of $30k might have had invested close to $42k into bitcoin in 8 years based on investing $100 per week into bitcoin and he had accumulated close to 4 bitcoin. The 4 accumulated bitcoin would currently have a 200-WMA value of about $183k and a spot price value of $334k.

So this guy put right around 15% of his annual income into bitcoin for 8 years, which resulted in his investing about 140% of his annual income into bitcoin, yet the 200-WMA value is right around 6x the amount of his annual income and the spot price is about 11x his annual income.

I personally suggest to use the 200-WMA in regards to determining whether the amount is enough to start selling, yet surely any one can be tempted to also shave off bitcoin value in which the spot price which is around 82% higher than the 200-WMA... but long term management of the bitcoin shows a lot of progress and a lot of options in regards to continuing to accumulate bitcoin or to change into some other status.. since it also well could be that the sustainable withdrawal power of the bitcoin would tend to double every 3-4 years based on the historical 200-WMA patterns, and right now such quantity of bitcoin would allow around $18k per year to be sustainably withdrawn based on the 200-WMA, yet the same quantity of bitcoin may well allow somewhere in the ballpark of $36k withdrawals, yet if the BTC stash continues to grow, then that also might help for the sustainable withdrawal amounts to go higher too.

There are people who may well want to get their BTC investment portfolio to a place in which they are able to withdrawal around twice their current standard of living prior to their starting to tap into their funds, and surely, those are not bad kinds of ideas to have.