Quote from: paxmao on May 13, 2025, 10:04:32 PM

Quote from: DaRude on May 13, 2025, 05:31:01 PM

Quote from: paxmao on May 12, 2025, 10:02:21 PM

Quote from: DaRude on May 12, 2025, 06:01:24 PM

Quote from: paxmao on May 11, 2025, 11:17:50 PM

Are you guys somehow trying to walltext this instead of talking about the meeting in Turkiya? Aparently, there may be some short of possibility of Putin and Zelensky actually meeting in Turkiya.

Zelensky said he would be there, the US and the "coalition of the willing" want them both there and ... well, there comes the problem: Putin may not be interested. But it is good that at least the US keeps on the accelerated course on Ruzzian diplomacy and have a good understanding why, after three years of war, the main obstacle for any peace remains ... Putin.

December 2, 2022 Putin open to Ukraine talks after Biden signals willingness if Russia serious about ending war

Feb 28, 2023 Russia Lays Out Peace Negotiation Terms That 'Cannot Be Ignored'

April 22, 2025 Putin says he’s open to direct talks with Ukraine as US pressure builds

Quote from: https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4457159-putin-says-open-negotiating-us-ukraine-war-carlson-interview/

February 08, 2024
Putin told Carlson in an interview from Moscow that Russia has “never refused negotiations” and would welcome any efforts from Washington to discuss a peace agreement in Ukraine.

“We hear all the time, ‘Is Russia ready?’ Yes,” Putin said in the interview that aired Thursday. “We have not refused. It was them who publicly refused.”

Putin has claimed before that he is open to negotiating an end to the war, including after Russian forces suffered massive losses in 2022 following Ukrainian counteroffensives.

But U.S. officials have expressed wariness at the claims because Russia still demands Ukraine not be included in the Western security alliance NATO and Moscow wants to hold the roughly 18 percent of territory Russian forces occupy in eastern Ukraine.

Zelenskiy decree rules out Ukraine talks with Putin as 'impossible'

Quote from: Google Translate https://www.president.gov.ua/documents/6792022-44249

President of Ukraine V. ZELENSKY
September 30, 2022

Enacted by the Decree of the President of Ukraine
dated September 30, 2022
â„– 679/2022

DECISION

of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine

dated September 30, 2022

Regarding Ukraine’s actions in response to the Russian Federation’s attempt to annex the territories of our state, in order to guarantee the security of the Euro-Atlantic space, Ukraine, and restore its territorial integrity

Taking into account the results of the meeting of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief’s Headquarters and having heard the members of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine, the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine decided:

1. To state the impossibility of holding negotiations with the President of the Russian Federation V. Putin.
..

April 20, 2022 UK PM Johnson says Ukraine peace talks are doomed because of "crocodile" Putin

Roll Eyes

wonder what happened since then

But honestly, Boris should've never been allowed to torpedo negotiation back in 2022. So however you want to sell these negotiations to your targeted audience, like amazing Z with his super intelligence and his super human EU friends with their wunderwaffe outwit Putin and returns to the same negotiation table that Z walked out on 3 years ago, is fine by me. Just force Z to the negotiation table and mass media can sell it to their dumb audience however they want.

DaRude, since Ruzzia decided to invade crimea in 2014, Putin has always SAID that he wants to talk to achieve peace. The obvious problem is that when he says peace he means "dictating the terms of the surrendering".

I told you, I am already in the "advanced" level of Ruzzian diplomacy and have learned to translate "Peace" from "Putinian" into English. Peace means surrender, negotiating means repeating the same over and over, "agreement" means "toilet paper" and "safety guarantees" mean ... well, nothing.

I am starting to wonder if all this due to translation mistakes.

Call it whatever you want but as the saying goes, the best time to plant a tree was 10yrs ago, the second best is today. If the outcome is the same (or gets even worse with time) the best time for negotiation was in 2022, second best is today. Boris wanted to observe others in a war, think this should be enough for him and it's time to end it. What's the point of spilling more blood for a worse outcome? Or you want to spill even more Ukrainian blood and for Ukraine to loose even more land just to disarm Russia a tiny bit more?

This paragraph is the best example of Putin style pure Russian diplomacy. Since I have the initial level of cultural understanding of Ruzzia, I can now translate: "The best moment to surrender was 2022 second best is today". Â

But, there is an obvious caveat to your "logic" - that "worse outcome" (for Ukraine) is not only not guaranteed, it may actually turn to be the opposite. I would not dare to predict what may happen in Ruzzia is the war continues for another 2 years.

Have you asked yourself why Putin would not conceede on a simple cease fire, not even for 20 days? It is not because Ukraine would take advantage, they have had years. He is simply afraid that NATO coutries move troops into Ukraine. Then he would be killing NATO member soldiers.

BTW there is only one side spilling blood - for nothing but imperial ambitions - the other is just defending their future and their right to choose and progress.

And do you dare to predict what would happen to Ukraine if the war continues for another 2 years? How about just another winter?

Ukraine grapples with lowest birth rate in the world subtract from that whatever death rate you want to believe, and then subtract the emigration out of Ukraine. Literally to the last Ukrainian?

"may actually turn to be the opposite"
And that's a strategy?? How much more Ukrainian blood and land you're willing to sacrifice for a chance that this "may" actually materializes and turns to be the opposite? I'm pretty sure if you ask Boris he'd answer everyone in Ukraine. And then who would answer if this doesn't happen and then Ukraine has to negotiate but now from an even worse position? You keep treating this as a game with no downsides, but the real world just doesn't work like that, these improbable outcomes have a real world cost and real consequences. Oh well it didn't work out but at least we tried, would be hard for Ukrainians to swallow, but who are we kidding, we all see how much Ukrainians and Ukrainian laws (impossibility to negotiate with Putin) really matter to anyone.

Easy to answer, let's try to disassociate a hypothetical so even you would understand. Two sides, "A" and "B". "A" is on the offensive and slowly grinding through while "B" is defending and cannot hold the line and constantly has to retreat back under fire. During a ceasefire, "A" looses initiative and just sits there idling waiting for the ceasefire to end, "B" on the other hand can regroup, rotate tired forces out and bring new ones in, evacuate wounded out, bring provisions and ammo to the front, safely take forces out of disadvantageous positions, and bring forward engineering equipment and dig up as many tranches for defending on the front line and every 5km for retreating under a total safety of a ceasefire. Now can you see who would benefit from this?

Lol NATO the strongest military alliance in the world needs a ceasefire to move in its troops? And they can otherwise be rendered completely useless if one just doesn't provide that ceasefire that they seek? This is a joke right? Plus I'm sure all Orban and Fico can just give their consensus while visiting Moscow.