Quote from: satscraper on May 14, 2025, 04:17:55 PM

Quote from: walletbro on May 14, 2025, 03:11:13 PM

I think I understand. Do you mean SEEDLESS in the sense that no display ever shows the seed phrase?

Nope, broadly speaking, seedless refers to a wallet that doesn’t rely on seed phrase to generate/recover its private key. AFAIK Tangem is currently the only hardware wallet that fully implements this approach, embedding the private key directly into the card itself. That said, we might see more seedless solutions in the domain of HW, especially if the developers behind certain projects stay committed to this concept. You can find more details about Tangem’s implementation over there. Once again, I’d like to refer to Zack Herbert's opinion, where he suggests that seed phrases will soon become obsolete.

Well, what do does and could 'seedless' mean? What about Keycard?
1) The wallet doesn’t show you a mnemonic, or
2) The wallet doesn’t even generate or store a mnemonic internally (it keeps only raw key material)

Not showing the words removes the classic paper backup. Great for physical-theft risk, bad if you lose the device.

Not having/generating/storing the words is merely an implementation choice.
Storing security hinges on how the underlying secret is protected. It's usually stored via master key, not mnemonic.
Generating a private key never 'relies on a seed phrase' in that sense. The seed phrase is just a human-readable encoding of the initial entropy.
The BIP-39/BIP-32 flow: Random entropy -> mnemonic 'seed phrase' -> 512-bit seed -> Master key pair -> keys/addresses

Tangem in its default setup is type (2): the secure element generates one ECC private key and clones it to 2-3 cards.
No BIP-32, which means you only get one address per asset. (there's a BIP-39 seed mode, which makes it 'non-seedless' if you will. but in that mode you only get the first address on each path.)

Keycard can be seedless (1) where you burn the paper after creating backup cards. Full BIP-32, so you can have as many addresses as you like.

We all agree that a pice of paper with 12 words is a single point of failure. That’s the gist of Zack Herbert’s argument as well: keep the secret encrypted, sharded, or inside hardware. I'm sure he'd like Keycard as encrypted backups.