Quote from: NewRanger on Today at 04:49:06 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 01:11:03 AM

Guys do have to figure out these kinds of matters for themselves, and I can see why someone who had been building up his bitcoin investment for 4-10 years or longer may feel like he wants to take some profits, and he might even get excited and sell too much too soon, such as selling 25% to 50% of his stash or more, but then if he really reflects on the power of bitcoin, he likely should be able to figure out some sustainable withdrawal systems that are either price based or time based that will end up resulting in his being able to continue to withdraw bitcoin yet to also be able to allow his bitcoin to continue to grow in terms of its dollar value (so he ends up largely sustaining most of his BTC stash, but still withdrawing from it on a fairly regular basis).

In other conditions, If Someone who has the ability to withstand emotional pressure and understand the basics of the coins he holds, I am sure he will be able to manage to Enjoy the Results and not lose the Long-Term Growth Potential. Yes. Quite interesting. I also recently saw a wallet that has been active for a long time, let's say he has stored 300BTC 5 years ago, well, of course this will also cause a little dilemma / desire to realize a little profit to enjoy of course with full consideration as I said above.

If a guy has 300 bitcoins from 5 years ago or more, then I am having trouble considering any kind of dilemmas with the options presented by having such 300 bitcoin right now.

I could understand a normal kind of a guy accumulating 300 bitcoin from 2015 or 2013 or earlier, since in 2015, I person could have had accumulated 300 BTC for less than $100k, yet if a guy were to accumulate 300 BTC 5 years ago, then in the better case scenario, it still may well have had cost him more than $1 million to accumulate such bitcoin, since there were not too many times in which he could have had gotten them for less than $4k, and so more realistic would be costs of $2 million or possibly a bit more to accumulate 300 BTC, but still right now, we see that quantity of bitcoin is currently worth around $14 million for its 200-WMA value and $31 million for its spot price, which largely goes to show that for anyone working with a large amount of value, then they can likely transition into sustainable withdrawal more quickly than anyone who might be accumulating bitcoin under more modest purchase quantities.

I would suggest that a person who has $14 million based on spot price can actually withdraw in a sustainable way around $1.4 million per year, so even if such guy might have invested around $2 million or more into bitcoin, he would be able to withdraw in a sustainable way in which he would get back his principle in less than 2 years and he could continue to withdraw at that $1.4 million per year in perpetuity (as long as he does not screw it up).

I usually would recommend such a short period of time to go from buying bitcoin and into sustainable withdrawal, yet if the numbers work out, and the bitcoin had been allowed to sit for a whole cycle, then I see no problem transitioning into sustainable withdrawal whether price based and/or time based... by the way, it is easier to go into price-based sustainable withdrawal than to go into time-based sustainable withdrawal since time-based sustainable withdrawal may well end up with ongoing withdrawals on a regular basis, yet even with time-based sustainable withdrawals, guys can still adjust the amounts of their withdrawals upwards or downwards based on BTC prices. There can be ways to combine (or hybrid) such sustainable withdrawal practices in order to not withdraw too much BTC during the downward price periods and to withdraw more during the upwards price periods.

Even if we are dealing with higher numbers, we still might need to consider a guy's individuals particulars in order to help to determine what he might consider to be a reasonable course of action, and surely if we are the guy in such circumstances, then surely we still might need to think through our circumstances in terms of considering if we might transition into some kind of sustainable withdrawal, and if we have other income sources, besides the BTC that we hold, then we may well only need the BTC to supplement our other income sources..

...and sure we could have some income sources that we feel causes us too much work and other stress, and so we might choose to sell our other income sources and then become more reliant upon our bitcoin as or primary income source, so surely there can be a lot of options, and anyone who is able to get 5x, 10x, 30x or more on their investments likely feels good about the options that they have and they feel better if they had been able to put more value into investments that ended up performing well. Surely any guy who got bitcoin around $k to $6k per BTC 5 years ago, would feel quite good about his investment and in less of a dilemma, and if his cost are $10k to $20k per coin, he might have more of a dilemma in regards to maybe sitting on his investment rather than starting to cash in any of his investment. There can be quite a bit of variation, and surely I consider calculating from the 200-WMA to be a better way to valuate bitcoin and to consider courses of action based on such valuation..

Quote from: sotelorene on Today at 08:36:57 AM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on Today at 01:11:03 AM

Quote from: I_Anime on May 15, 2025, 11:24:04 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on May 15, 2025, 10:53:10 PM

To me, it seems quite unlikely and unrealistic for anyone to be able to accumulate enough or more than enough bitcoin in one cycle, unless he had been able to considerably front load his bitcoin investment from other funds that he has, and even if he takes close to a whole cycle to accumulate enough or more than enough bitcoin, he still might have to wait a whole cycle before he transitions from buying to maintaining and then to selling... and sure, my own preference is to figure out ways to sustainably sell bitcoin rather than selling most if not all of the bitcoin stash at once and then end up as a no coiner or a low coiner, which turning into a no coiner or a low coiner does not seem to be the reason to have had gotten into bitcoin... except maybe traders see bitcoin as something to get into and then to get out of rather than being something that is held for a lifetime.. and to just sell it as needed once reaching an overaccumulation status..

Hmmm that’s nice point selling all your coin after reaching your goal and becoming a no coiner is like you going back to your starting point . Which is not encouraging at all imagine selling something that took years for you to build in just one day , and we can’t tell if bitcoin may have gotten higher in price but we believe that bitcoin price will grow with time , so you selling when the price has surge with a massive increase, you won’t be able to buy cheaper like you once did if you have the mindset of buying back after a certain period of time , after selling all your coin . There should be better method of taken profits without selling all your coin.

Guys do have to figure out these kinds of matters for themselves, and I can see why someone who had been building up his bitcoin investment for 4-10 years or longer may feel like he wants to take some profits, and he might even get excited and sell too much too soon, such as selling 25% to 50% of his stash or more, but then if he really reflects on the power of bitcoin, he likely should be able to figure out some sustainable withdrawal systems that are either price based or time based that will end up resulting in his being able to continue to withdraw bitcoin yet to also be able to allow his bitcoin to continue to grow in terms of its dollar value (so he ends up largely sustaining most of his BTC stash, but still withdrawing from it on a fairly regular basis).

Sir JJG I think you are right but the truth is everyone has there plan and reason why they are investing, there are investors who are investing and holding for long term under duress and so whenever these investors get to a point they feel it is ok and they have hold for 4-10 years they won't care anymore, they will be selling anyhow they like because they were holding it under duress but someone who didn't hold under duress will never sell 25%-50% of their investment because they understand and know the asset they are holding, then again investing under duress is not a good idea or strategy because one will consume everything in a short period of time after holding.

Just because some guys do dumb things and have bad motivations and become emotional about their investment, that does not mean that any of us should aspire to conduct ourselves in those kinds of ways - even though we likely can realize that anyone is vulnerable towards making various kinds of mistakes, which may well include selling too much of their bitcoin too soon.

Hopefully many of us are trying to build and put into practice systems in which we are largely in control of the systems that we set forth, and if we screw up some of our systems, we might even contribute towards our becoming overly emotional based on our having had put bad systems and practices into place.

It is likely that many of us are going to end up making several mistakes in our bitcoin investment journey, yet hopefully none of our mistakes are so great that we largely take ourselves out of the bitcoin investment game and become a bitter low coiner and/or no coiner based on the extent of our various mistakes along the way. If we learn about our mistakes, then we likely are building stronger investment and cashflow management systems with the passage of time we should become more and more resilient in terms of our finances, and if our finances are strong then our psychology becomes stronger too.

Quote from: michellee on Today at 08:59:41 AM

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That is why we must learn how to control our emotion so when we become an investor, we will not get the market affect. We can still calm down especially when the price fall but we can see a chance to buy back to add more amount. But if we don't learn anything, that will be a matter of time for us to lose our emotion control.

Having emotion control will also help you to prevent panicking when something goes wrong. You can adapt with the current situation without emotional because you are ready with that. With emotion control, you can run your investment without worry and still follow the plan.
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There is always going to be some emotions, yet the stronger that we set up our systems of investment, cashflow management and back up funds then the more likely that we can reduce our emotions - even if we cannot completely eliminate emotions, but if we have good systems in place, we may well realize that we are best off to just stick with the systems that we have in place, and not to change any of our course of action based on emotions that we might be feeling...

...even though sometimes the level of our emotions might tell us that there might be something that we need to change, since sometimes if there is a dip and if we are becoming overly emotional, and we are not buying and we are thinking about selling some BTC, then we likely might be able to realize that we are overly invested. .but we might not be in a position to resolve our situation of being overly invested when the BTC price is down.. or we might learn that we need to keep some money in reserves so that we can buy when the BTC price dips so that we will feel better, yet we may still realize that the BTC price might keep dipping even after we bought more BTC, yet our level of emotions might still inform us that there might be some ways that we can tweak what we are doing so that we are not becoming so emotional.

Quote from: CageMabok on Today at 10:06:54 AM

Quote from: NewRanger on Today at 04:49:06 AM

[edited out]
And now everyone should be aware enough to keep buying Bitcoin because I am pretty sure that Bitcoin will come back close to its previous ATH level and even potentially create a new ATH level again this year if the price correction is not too much. So use a clearer strategy even though each of us still has desires that we have not obtained until now, but be sure that what we have not obtained now we can definitely get someday if we do not stop trying to make it happen.

You sound a bit bearish CageMabok.. we are likely to have a new ATH this month or next month... sure it is not guaranteed, but if you are saying "this year" then that seems a bit much (up to 7 months if we might have to wait until the end of the year). Anything could happen, but it seems at least greater than 50/50 odds that a new ATH will come in the coming month or two... almost a bettable differing of framing the matter expressed here.

Quote from: Solokan on Today at 11:20:09 AM

Quote from: Sim_card on May 14, 2025, 05:46:20 PM

[edited out]

everyone certainly has different targets and of course the decision is in each person's hands. but it is true what you said and of course if you think about it of course in my opinion also currently btc can still be said to be cheap because of course when compared to the price of btc in the future of course btc will have the potential to be very high and of course if people want very big profits of course it must be more than 10 years from now. and of course a simple example of people who bought btc in the past when btc was cheap of course they must have made a big profit now and of course for those who buy btc now will also have the potential to make a big profit in the future for example more than 10 years from now.

your plan is very good friend, because you continue to do dca and without thinking about selling it when of course that is a good idea because I also happen to be the same as you because I also believe that selling btc now is certainly too cheap even though btc has made a new ath again. especially now I also only have a little btc because if it is sold it certainly will not be much profit. Yes, the point is that right now I am the same as you in continuing to DCA and of course continuing to focus on the amount of BTC collected even though I can only afford DCA with a small capital.

Even though you have a similar forum registration date as Sim_card, you (Solokan) seem to have less resolve about the timeline in which you are accumulating bitcoin, and you are talking about today's price rather than your own BTC accumulation journey that may well take more than 10 years for you to get to a point in which you have accumulated a decent amount of BTC, especially if you are proclaiming to currently have ONLY limited capital in order to ongoingly buy bitcoin.

Many guys take 30-40 years to build up their investments, and they never get to a point in which they can completely live off of their investments. I think that with bitcoin there are surely opportunities to cut that timeline in half (or more) and also to have more confidence that your efforts will have some kind of a payoff (even though the payoff of investing into bitcoin is surely not guaranteed)..

If you are really so early in your bitcoin accumulation journey, then you should ONLY be thinking about buying and perhaps thinking about ways to potentially improve your discretionary income and/or your cashflow management practices... and surely each of us can ONLY work from within what is within our means, and we cannot be expecting to be able to progress in rapid ways, even though if we are focused on accumulating bitcoin, we may well end up being able to identify, from time to time, additional areas in which we are able to increase our investment into bitcoin based on sometimes extra cashflows that we might come across from time to time.

Quote from: Sticky Bomb on Today at 06:00:22 PM

Quote from: Jaycoinz on Today at 03:40:08 AM

[edited out]

It would do the investor a great good to have a decent portfolio for himself instead of just having some Bitcoin left. The target should be on having more quantity and keep accumulating until you reach your target and not giving in to selling Bitcoin too soon and taking short-term profits.

Investors should be focused on adding more Bitcoin to their portfolio and not removing from it since the more the quantity, the more your profitability potential.. instead of selling some BTC, which might lead to selling too much BTC too soon, it's better to keep accumulating. I've learned that in BTC accumulation, it's more profitable to be a farmer, cultivate by continuous purchases, add to your portfolio and wait for the termination of your holding period to decide how to take profits, rather than being a hunter and always target short-term profits to satisfy your greed.

I think that you make a good point Sticky Bomb... if a person is getting to the point that they are wanting to start to live off their bitcoin and/or to have their bitcoin supplement their other forms of income, yet they are not sure if they have enough bitcoin, then probably they would be in a better place to make sure that they have overaccumulated and that they are sure that they have enough bitcoin.

So right now, if a guy wants to have an $80k per year income off of his bitcoin then he needs to have at least 16.971 BTC, yet at the same time, if he is not sure if he is calculating properly then perhaps, he would rather accumulate more bitcoin or maybe ONLY withdraw at $70k per year rather than $80k per year... until the size of his bitcoin stash gets to a level that is enough to support his income.. and surely if a person keeps the same size bitcoin stash or withdraws at a lower rate, then the bitcoin stash will grow faster than the withdrawal rate (in terms of the dollar value), and so with the passage of time, lower and lower amounts of bitcoin will allow for the same amount of withdrawal.

I also think that if a person makes sure that he has more than enough bitcoin, then each year, he will be able to increase his withdrawal rate to keep up with the increases in the cost of living (based on the debasement of the dollar). So the first year, the withdrawal amount would be $80k, and, then based on a 10% increased withdrawal rate, the second year it would be $88k, and then the third year it would be $96.8k. And, so each person has to make sure that the amount of BTC that he holds supports his withdrawal rate so that it is increasing in value (based on the 200-WMA) greater than the withdrawal amounts.