Quote from: Cgrexp on September 09, 2025, 06:53:22 AM

Quote from: SmartCharpa on September 08, 2025, 02:42:01 PM

I agree with you, it’s not a must to have an emergency fund before starting an investment. That’s where many people get it wrong. They assume that because Bitcoin is always changing in price, they must first have an emergency fund before beginning their journey. But it doesn’t really work that way, what is more important is having discretionary income, so we can keep investing regularly. If we wait until everything is perfect, we may end up buying at an even higher price.

It’s not about starting perfectly, it’s about starting somewhere, from there we can gradually build an emergency fund while still accumulating Bitcoin. If we overthink the price and delay because we want backup funds first, we might miss opportunities. Nobody knows whether the price will dip or rise tomorrow, so the best method is to start with what we can and grow gradually as you’re investing.

The money we earn on a daily, weekly or monthly basis is stable income.

Why are you assuming that everyone makes a stable income? Some people make a stable income and some do not.

Sure it is better to have a stable income rather than not having one... but a stable income is not necessary in order to be able to invest in bitcoin.

Quote from: Cgrexp on September 09, 2025, 06:53:22 AM

The money that is left after meeting our basic or urgent needs such as food, clothing, housing, education, medical expenses from stable income is discretionary income. From this discretionary income, we build investments, emergency funds and savings.

We also consume with our discretionary income... We can choose to consume right away or we can delay our consumption by investing and/or saving.

Quote from: Cgrexp on September 09, 2025, 06:53:22 AM

So discretionary income is part of stable income.

No it is not, since you do not have to have stable income order to have discretionary income.

In order to have discretionary income, all that you need is income that goes beyond your expenses. which is like saying that you have extra money and you can do whatever you like with it... and some people choose to be more responsible with their money and others decide to spend it as fast as they get it. Part of the definition of discretionary is that you have a choice regarding how to spend that money, and you do not need it for expenses.

Sure, if you income is not stable and you are not sure whether you have further income coming in, or you are not sure about your expenses, then you could mistakenly conclude that you have more discretionary income than you do, and you might end up spending money that you had needed for your expenses.

Quote from: Cgrexp on September 09, 2025, 06:53:22 AM

If I want to invest, I have to have a stable income system from which I can earn money on a regular weekly or monthly basis.

No you don't. If you want to invest in bitcoin all you need is to have income that is greater than your expenses. Now if you want to continue to buy beyond the first purchase and/or you want to hang onto your bitcoin and not end up spending it to cover your future expenses, then you have to have enough income or savings to be able to pay for your future expenses.

Keep in mind there is one point in time in which anyone might buy bitcoin and expect to be able to continue to hold the bitcoin and to buy more bitcoin in the future, yet the future is not completely known. Each of us might strive to keep our job or we might strive to control our expenses and/or to otherwise manage our cashflow with back up funds, but if we end up having future expenses that are greater than our income and we deplete our various forms of savings and/or back up funds, we may well end up having to spend our bitcoin at a time that is not completely of our own choosing.

Quote from: Ruttoshi on September 09, 2025, 05:37:43 PM

Quote from: Jostern on September 09, 2025, 03:12:33 PM

When I have gotten to my over accumulation and probably I must have been holding for two circle or one circle minimum, because there are people who even holding for one circle they still end up not stacking enough bitcoin into their portfolio and they will tend to have a different choice of holding for another circle and if you have this approach I think their is every tendency that before we get to 2 circle we must have had enough profit in our bitcoin portfolio that we wouldn’t have to worry about whatever the situation of market might be, there is difference between holding for a short term and holding for a longer term, and that is consistency and patience.

Even after stacking for two circles there is no guarantee that your profit will be huge because it all depends on how much that you are using to DCA and how aggressive you were during this two circles of your bitcoin accumulation and if you front load your bitcoin. I wouldn't stop at two circles but I will rather continue accumulating bitcoin until I reach my bitcoin target because that is where my focus is on. I don't use number of years to time when I will stop accumulating bitcoin but my bitcoin target because that's when I can tell if I have will move on to over accumulation phase.

Secondly, you don't sell all your bitcoin portfolio because you have achieved your goal if not you will regret of selling too many bitcoin too soon since you will be back to a low coiner and regret your actions. This is why you need to use a sustainable withdrawal strategy that will enable you only tap little from your bitcoin portfolio once in a while and it wouldn't affect your bitcoin investment because your portfolio keeps on compounding in profits.

The idea of sustainable withdrawal is that you are tending to withdraw at a rate that is lower than the amount that your bitcoin is growing.. so even if you continue to withdraw your bitcoin goes up in value faster and greater than you are withdrawing.

So let's say you had an income of around $30k per year, and you were investing pretty aggressively into bitcoin around 17% of your income and you had been investing $100 per week into bitcoin since December 2015, and over the past (nearly 9 years), you had invested right around $47k, and you had accumulated right around 15.5 BTC.

And, so you were feeling pretty good about your 15.5 BTC because it currently has a spot value of $1.7 million, and a 200-WMA value of more than $800k.. so the part that you are interested in is the 200-WMA, since you don't want to withdraw at a rate that is greater than the bitcoin is growing, yet you are confident that you have calculated correctly, and you can start to either withdraw around $6,666 per month on a sustainable basis or you can make any adjustments that you need and you are pretty confident that you have enough bitcoin that you will never go below the $800k 200-WMA valuation if you withdraw at the rate that is 10% of the value of the 200-WMA value per year.. and surely if you put such withdrawal system in practice you have enough cushion that you could start to withdraw at a lower rate if you are not confident that your withdrawal formula is sustainable at your chosen rate of $6,666 per month or $80k per year.

Also it seems to me that if you are using the 200-WMA as your sustainable withdrawal guide you likely could increase your dollar value at about 7% per year and still never go below your ability to withdraw and to not overly deplete your BTC holdings. So the first year would be $80k. The second year would be $85.6k. The third year would be $91.6k. The 4th year would be $98k... etc etc etc.

And yeah, you have to figure out formulas so that you don't overly withdraw, yet it seems that bitcoin is a great investment to facilitate such guidelines.

Quote from: Cgrexp on September 09, 2025, 06:53:22 AM

And with that, I will continue to invest to meet my urgent expenses. What you said is that it is not mandatory to have an emergency fund before starting investment. Also, you said that if we think too much about the price and delay by wanting a backup fund first, then we may miss the opportunity. Here I partially agree with you that if we delay with a backup, we may miss the opportunity. But should we start investing with absolutely zero fund? Maybe after starting investment, some urgent expenses may come where even if there is no emergency fund, someone may get discouraged. Therefore, it is advisable to keep at least two to four weeks of emergency expenses in cash without delay in making a full deposit. And gradually increase the amount of emergency deposit. This will keep the investment active, and emergency problems will be solved. Therefore, rather than having absolutely zero deposit, I think it will be safer to start investing with a minimum emergency deposit.

Each of us has to decide how much back up funds we feel that we need to have to protect ourselves, to give ourselves options and to not to cause us to have to do something that we don't want to do. So it surely may well be the case that there are a large number of folks who come to bitcoin and they already have back up funds, yet if they do not have any back up funds, then they are not prohibited from starting to invest in bitcoin, and surely if they have a very shitty cashflow situation and a lot of debt, they they have to figure out the extent to which they have discretionary income or not, since if their income does not exceed their expenses (including their need to service debts), then they might not be in a strong enough position to be able to invest in bitcoin.

The mere fact that a person does not have back up funds does not necessarily mean that he is not able to invest into bitcoin as long as he can determine that he has discretionary funds, and if he has discretionary funds, then he can decide how to spend his discretionary funds. Of course, it seems to make sense that if a person is going to continue to invest into bitcoin or even to increase the amount invested with the passage of time, such as buying bitcoin on a weekly basis, then the more important that he strengthens his cashflow management situation and his cashflow management practices, otherwise he would be engaging in gambling rather than investing. It can take a while for some folks to both invest in bitcoin (and build up his bitcoin investment) and to strengthen his cashflow management systems/practices in order that he can feel more comfortable increasing the level of his aggressiveness in his bitcoin investing practices. Those balances can be learned along the way. He does not need to have all of his balances figured out in order to get started investing in bitcoin.

Quote from: EL MOHA on September 09, 2025, 05:55:37 PM

Quote from: Ruttoshi on September 09, 2025, 05:37:43 PM

Even after stacking for two circles there is no guarantee that your profit will be huge because it all depends on how much that you are using to DCA and how aggressive you were during this two circles of your bitcoin accumulation and if you front load your bitcoin. I wouldn't stop at two circles but I will rather continue accumulating bitcoin until I reach my bitcoin target because that is where my focus is on. I don't use number of years to time when I will stop accumulating bitcoin but my bitcoin target because that's when I can tell if I have will move on to over accumulation phase.

I think this should be the basis at which people honestly need to work on, do not set timely basis on bitcoin for either to accumulate bitcoin or take profit from it, rather it should be base on the target, if the target is 1 bitcoin as a whole portfolio, it should be followed gradually, it can take up two cycles or more or even less depending on your income or accumulating load, if you set a time factor like 2 cycles and this target isn’t reached does this means one has to stop? I don’t think so.

For me the target should be base on the amount of bitcoin you want and not time and then you move to over accumulation period and if possible add little by little if you choose, for profit taking it is no brainer that selling all is like handing over your bitcoin again to inflationary currency and also profit should be target price and not time

There is nothing wrong with having a time target, too. Some guys have more flexibilities with their time, and other guys might not.

Other guys might not be able to get to exactly where they would like to be, and they might have age and/or health considerations or some other kinds of needs that they consider to be reasonable, so they might accumulate BTC for one or two cycles.... and then enter sustainable withdraw from where-ever they happen to be. Let's say that a guy is in his early 50s (let's say he just turned 53), and he feels like he is getting old and his retirement prospects are not feeling as good as he thought that it would be.

Let's say that his income is around $50k, and even though he had been investing for around 20 years, he had ONLY gotten his investment portfolio to around $200k. He is thinking that he might take around 25% of his investment portfolio and invest it into bitcoin (which would be around $50k), and he also is going to invest around 20% of his income into bitcoin for the next 6-9 years (right now that would be around $12.5k per year, or $250 per week). He is just going to do as best at he can and see where he is at in 6-9 years, and he would like to stop working by his late 50s or maybe by his early 60s at the latest, so he is considering to just invest into bitcoin as aggressively as he is able to accomplish in the next 6-9 years and see where it gets him.

He can see on his end if he invests around 25% of his income plus some kind of front loading of $50k into bitcoin, then each 4 years, he would invest the equivalent of his annual income after 8 years he would have had invested right around $150k into bitcoin. He can ONLY control the portion that he can control and do his best with whatever resources that he has available.