Quote from: BTCETFInvestor on September 12, 2025, 12:36:59 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on September 12, 2025, 12:16:05 AM

This thread is about bitcoin, and if you provide a link to some other thread, then no problem providing that here.. but we should not be getting into the weeds of comparing and/or contrasting the owning of bitcoin to various derivative products (including BTC ETF products) in this thread.

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Getting into too much discussion of BTC ETFs and/or comparing them to bitcoin might be deserving of another thread, to the extent that threads already exist related to such topics.

JJG, here ya go (see below) with a link to a thread titled 'View about Investors of Spot Bitcoin ETFs' about spot Bitcoin ETFs!

► https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5558262.0

I'll bookmark the linked thread to look at later.

Quote from: Sim_card on September 12, 2025, 02:29:23 PM

Quote from: BTCETFInvestor on September 12, 2025, 12:36:59 PM

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I feel that you don't understand what JJG is saying above. This thread is about individual investors buying and hodli bitcoin for their future as the keep their buying purchases ongoing overtime.

You are here talking about Bitcoin ETFs who came into the game to make quick profits by trading or don't you know that they are the highest traders in history and this thread does not support trading but long-term investment and holdi.

ETFs are already big institutions who are buying and selling bitcoin every day and that shouldn't be a lifestyle to imitate. If you have not started your bitcoin investment, I expect you to learn a lot from this thread and make a proper plan to start your bitcoin investment whenever your discretionary income is available and build your bitcoin portfolio for the future through DCA regular weekly purchases for 4-10 years and above.

If you don't invest early, and choose to be waiting, you will regret your actions in future. ETFs are already rich and making more, so you need to eat your own bitcoin cake by investing and hodli for the future. If you are buying from ETF remember that you are only buying the value of bitcoin and not real bitcoin that should be in your noncustodial wallet.

I agree that ETFs (Exchange Traded Funds) are largely not on topic here, yet at the same time, they are not necessarily used for trading (even though they have trading in their name), even though they are easy to get in and out of, so there are some folks who will trade them.. but there are are also a lot of folks who merely invest in them..

Generally speaking ETF fund investors are likely more sticky than some other kinds of BTC investors and not necessarily prone to sell easily, since they are frequently institutions, government and/or folks who have retirement plans.. and yeah they can be other kinds of investors, but yeah they do not hold their own keys when they buy those ETF products.. and yeah, we can talk about these matters in the thread like that BTCETFInvestor linked to.

Quote from: BTCETFInvestor on September 12, 2025, 02:58:30 PM

Quote from: Sim_card on September 12, 2025, 02:29:23 PM

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@Sim_card - FYI, I have no intention of selling or trading the fairly sizable amount of spot Bitcoin ETF I currently own (that is equal in price to over 5BTC) for at least 15 years, and I will likely add more. I'm not a beginner investor with 8-digits of investment I self-manage! I don't need you trying to tell me what I should do. I'm fully capable of managing my finances and investments, I strongly suspect much better than you!

Good luck to you investing your 'discretionary income' as you feel is best!

Whether you have 8-digits of wealth in your investment portfolio or not, many guys here have a lot less, and many guys participating in these threads are trying to figure out solid investment strategies and building up their holdings (which they might not even imagine being able to get to 8 digits), yet there still might be needs to discuss whatever they are doing at their level, even though there is nothing wrong with guys who might have more wealth to discuss these matter, but there might be more difficulties to relate if you are dealing with some differing dynamics.. so it might not be very useful for you to participate in these threads if you already know everything and/or you are not trying to work with guys from where they are at and/or trying to relate to their situations.

It may well be true that Sim_card might not have had understood all of your points (to the extent that you had any good ones.. hahahahaha), yet if it seems that you are wanting to spin BTC ETF as if they were superior to bitcoin, then any other valuable message that you might have had might get missed because you are talking about a bitcoin derivative product rather than bitcoin... and it might not even be practical for some guys to even try to get into Bitcoin ETFs rather than directly owning bitcoin, and bitcoin is likely the superior product for a lot of more normal people and/or even poor people, anyhow.

Quote from: BTCETFInvestor on September 12, 2025, 07:22:32 PM

Quote from: Sim_card on September 12, 2025, 02:29:23 PM

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@Sim_card - To show you I don't need your advice:
I currently own 5,950 shares of Fidelity's spot Bitcoin ETF (Ticker: FBTC) which is equal to the price of about 5.2BTC. My cost basis is about $95/share x 5,950 = $565,000 invested.

The current price right now (9/12/2025) of BTC is $116,500 and the current price of FBTC right now is $101.75. 1,145 shares of FBTC equals the price of 1BTC and my 5,950 shares / 1,145 = 5.2BTC.
I purposely bought Fidelity's spot Bitcoin ETF (Ticker: FTBC) to parallel track the price of BTC. I fully expect Bitcoin's price to soar in the coming years. I have no intention of selling or trading. I am an investor, not a trader!

Today (9/12/2025) at market open FBTC was $100.00/share. FBTC is right now $101.75. My 5,950 shares have gained about 1.85% or about $10,400 today as I look at my brokerage account right now. FYI, my total gain with my position of FBTC as of today is $6.75/share x 5,950 = $40,150.
As time moves forward I fully expect the gain from my position of spot Bitcoin ETF to be well over $5 million by 2031 or 2032 as I expect BTC to be $1 million per coin in 6-7 years.

I have no intention of selling or trading for at least 15 years and maybe longer. Chances are I will add to my current position.
BTW, my annual 'discretionary income' is well over $1 million. I don't need your fucking advice!

You might need some advice about not continuing to post in this thread about BTC ETFs.. It is not very courteous to spam this thread, even if you might potentially have some good ideas to the extent that your supposed wealth matters to anyone (or that any of us might not relate to your desire to brag, whether it is true or not who cares?

And I am ONLY citing the full of your post, since you have already shown that you have inclinations to delete your posts.

Quote from: Emjay24 on September 12, 2025, 07:37:51 PM

Quote from: BTCETFInvestor on September 12, 2025, 07:22:32 PM

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It's good you've some investments and yes you can do whatever you want with your funds including buying shares rather than directly investing into Bitcoin and being in charge of your finances and yes you can think it's a smart approach to investing into Bitcoin by using a centralized scheme.

My main concern is that you plan to hold for long and you're using a centralized scheme. What is the guarantee that the ETF continues managing your funds properly and there would be no hack or collapse that might lead to losing your funds or even changes in policy? Of course there is none and not to mention that you'll be paying a certain percentage of your shares yearly as management fees.

It's best you take charge of your investment and store your coins in a hardware wallet or an air gapped device while you store your keys securely offline. That way you're sure your funds remain intact for as long as you intend holding and you'll have all the profits from your investment to yourself and not sharing with a third party nor entrusting your funds to them for safe keeping

BTCETFInvestor is too smart and too rich to hold his own keys. He is also likely smarter than all of us combined.... and sure his smartness, refusal to interact and wanting to prove himself might work out fine for him... perhaps? There are a lot of newbies to bitcoin (like BTCETFInvestor) who are choosing not to directly buy bitcoin and they might not even know the difference between bitcoin and derivative products.

Several of them even talk about the bitcoin ETF and/or other bitcoin derivative products that they might own as if it were the same as bitcoin.

When participating in threads like this, we want to try to learn from each other, but surely some folks sometimes will seem that they have an agenda or maybe that they are making shit up.. even if they might have some smarts, too.

Quote from: BTCETFInvestor on September 12, 2025, 07:59:39 PM

Quote from: Emjay24 on September 12, 2025, 07:37:51 PM

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I have full trust in Fidelity Investments, a multi-trillion dollar global financial investment management service company, one of the largest in the world.
Fidelity is governed by my country's (USA) financial standards and requirements just like the two other major brokerage accounts I use, the two major banks I use and another of the world's largest investment companies where I also have significant assets.

I am not the least bit concerned about the security of any of my investments or assets. I'm not in some third-world, corrupt country...
I have no problem paying an annual 0.25% fee. That doesn't bother me one bit!

Of course, you have a right to do whatever you like, yet I doubt we should be comparing and contrasting BTC ETFs in this thread, especially if you had created another thread on the topic.

Quote from: AYOBA on September 12, 2025, 08:00:59 PM

Quote from: Miramax12 on September 12, 2025, 03:06:08 PM

Waiting for the right dip can easily become a trap because no one can predict market levels with certainty. dollar averaging not only removes the stress of timing the market but also helps you build your position steadily, it is all about consistency and patience. starting early and sticking with the plan beats trying to time every move, as volatile Bitcoin is. great reminder to focus on the long game rather than chasing dips

Waiting for the right downturn is a bad strategy because no one can predict the market, and it can change at any time. That is why the bitcoin market is frequently referred to as unpredictable; it may change without notice. To be honest, the dollar cost average has decreased a lot of tension when it comes to accumulating bitcoins, as well as those who are not serious enough to grow their portfolio, which means their lack consistency and patience, which is necessary things in all cryptocurrency.

We are not talking about "all cryptocurrency" here. We are hopefully trying to talk about bitcoin.