Quote from: drawingthesun on August 14, 2014, 06:53:43 AM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on August 14, 2014, 12:45:04 AM

Quote from: rpietila on August 13, 2014, 06:10:05 PM

When I was choosing between the two, I personally felt that both the block interval and coin generation schedule were better in BBR. But unfortunately all the other things were worse, with legitimacy on the top of the list.

Why only pick one, and not both? Since CryptoNote is very new, both coins have a chance to be the sector leader. BBR may get stuck being Pepsi to XMR's Coke, or become the dominant CN coin if there is an XMR catastrophe. Those are both winning outcomes.

BBR may be the next BetaMax (better tech killed by QWERTY effect) but that's why I only spent 10% as much on them.

But BBR isn't even the next BetaMax, what the hell are you talking about? This is so frustrating!

BBR's changes are only to make it separate from monero and to build a cult around zoidberg. BBR's changes are questionable at best, this is Litecoin all over again, the fact that people can't see this just shows how many idiots are in Crypto!

I get it, I used to be one of those idiots, and I lost a lot for it, but I feel that I am different now, losing hundreds of Bitcoin changes you, makes you research well and apply logic.

Nobody is making a cult around zoidberg, Ask for an objective, outsider perspective on XMR and BBR; which one seems more more cult-like, which one seems more like a forced meme. XMR has multiple threads consistently pushed to the front page, fireside chats, monero missives, Random sprinklings of TA, big secret news that can't be spoken about yet, continual references that this is the silver to Bitcoins gold, that it is the ONLY alt worth investing in, subtle reminders that 'it won't stay cheap for long'. Apparently there will never be a monero cabal but everyone seems pretty close-knit to me -- Mr Zoidberg is not turning up for smoked salmon and a sancho panza at any investorwhales castles. (fwiw that's not necessarily a bad thing at all) Even this so called 'altcoin-observer' seems to be pretty centric on observing XMR. You know yourself OP could probably turn around and say he's including CleanWaterCoin in his portfolio with some statistics and projections, before you know it clearwater coin rally starts with wall observer minions. He definitely had a big impact on making sure this snowball starts rolling smoothly.

I picked out a few quotes below.

Quote from: aminorex on August 04, 2014, 03:55:01 PM

As long as my credit is good, I am a buyer long past the point of despair. When I start to feel the fear and depression, I cheer myself up by buying more. I take some amphetamine and a shot of whiskey, if that's what it takes.

Until people have obligations which can only be discharged in monero, there are no forced buyers, and volatility extremes will persist. Just about the only thing that can give you a permanent loss is selling - especially forced sales from leverage.

Quote from: aminorex on August 06, 2014, 05:11:17 AM

I just got a new convert. A rates trader at Metlife took a few thousand from me as a tail hedge. A miniscule position, but I suspect he will become a repeat customer and tell his friends.

I will be meeting with an fx option market maker later, and a hedge fund manager when we can work out a mutual time. Also looking into contacts with a rather largish fixed income fund for meetups the next time I hit nyc.

..snip...

I might line up a presentation on monero at one or more btc nyc meetups or at the nyc bitcoin center. Not by me, but by a friend who is better suited to the task.

In future I may line up some seminar groups in London, Hong Kong, and or Shanghai.

Oh and I will be having beers tomorrow after work with an SVP from Two Sigma. XMR will not be neglected.

Like Mr. Blankfein, I feel I am doing God' s work.

I didn't see any BBR supporters talking like that just yet. Don't even think that's the worst of the bunch. Sure I heard someone saying they will ask their employer to get paid in XMR or quit. I dread to read some posts by die-hard XMR supporters, the same way I dread a cold-call by someone convincing me I need new double glazing, or a knock from a jehovas witness'. because I know for sure all they want to do is plant that seed in my head I need to convert, I need to buy asap.

You show again this disturbing attitude that BBR is a direct copy-paste of XMR with marketing gimmicks - that XMR is the BTC and LTC (BBR) just adds a few bells and whistles.

Newsflash, Monero was a copy-paste too. Both were borne of the same womb and launched at very similar times. They were essentially horses that started at the same line - No 3 year difference here. Secondly, as I've said before whilst it might be apparent that now LTC doesn't offer any tangible benefit over BTC, it was not always the case. In 2011- there were genuine reasons why one might want to invest in it. XMR was not 'the btc' because there never was a cryptonote BTC. Bytecoin was like the tenebrix. So we needed a fairbrix/ltc. Looks like XMR for now is taking the latter position.

There isn't a whole lot that needs, or could even be changed from the vanilla cryptonote base the coins have built on. There are downsides people are aware of with this technology with no easy fix in sight, so It's more gradual polishing, bolt-tightening and house-keeping from the point we are at now. An equitable launch and a good community was a great foundation to start with.

BBR decided to do a few things fundamentally differently to XMR from the get go. You talk about things like a tweaked emission curve to be a 'questionable change'.

With XMR- 15% mined already and 86% mined within 4 years, really? And that's supposed to be preferential to BBR? It's no small thing. Why is XMR's emission curve kept the way it was? There could be a number of answers 1) lack of foresight with a smidgeon of greed. or 2) no need to fix what isn't broken. My opinion, the former. (Doesn't mean it's not possible to profit here - . We all know there has been much worse.)

Another example - BBR has described the methods they will use to trim the blockchain. I've heard a few times from XMR supporters that they believe it's a fast-fix, botch job etc and instead XMR will focus on embedding into a DB- doing it the 'proper way', - to me it seems compressed, not trimmed. BBR can trim then compress surely?

When BBR came out with a GUI, XMR supporters were mostly nonchalant. 'They rushed it', 'no regard for UI/UX' 'we'll spend weeks mocking up a beautiful cross-platform interface' 'gives us more time to accumulate, then the price will rocket' I agree the wallet mockup is certainly extremely sexy and looks like a lot of thought has been put into usability, but the launch should be somewhat priced into the market. Unless you are factoring in that bunch of noobs who couldn't figure out a command line will start buying in droves and a new higher floor will be set.

What XMR did in the beginning - Attracting high-profile backers, giving them a chance to accumulate, (or perhaps a little helping hand in building a stash) - having them announce they are taking a position- in fact the only position in alts they have ever taken, waiting for the fruit flies to show up and then gradually, slowly and methodologically building up an ecosystem is something that never happened with Boolberry community. Bringing liquidity, decent buy support to an exchange, then making the case for delisting the legacy LTC pairs for XMR was another intelligent step. XMR has eloquent, personable dev team with constant community interaction doing things slowly but surely, vs a perceived, reclusive, standoffish non native english speaking 'one man show' making a quick git clone- that's the kind of attitude I've heard from XMR proponents.

The early posts by cbuchner regarding his BBR mining ventures was a big blight to that coin, despite it being debunked nicely by dga & christian himself it was still continuously used as ammo against the coin- the crippled hashing function left over from the bytecoin/bitmonero copy paste process in monero was also debunked by smooth or fluffpony.. i forget -- Both were proven to have had little real impact in the grand scheme of things, yet the difference is that little hiccup never really had an effect on XMR pricing to the same magnitude it did with BBR.

Anyway in terms of profit potential- OP has said, in his own words:

Quote from: rpietila on August 13, 2014, 09:42:23 PM

Monero makes me feel like Bitcoin in 2010, tons of potential and a $6MM market cap. I actually was there so I can compare the feeling. It will become really big, 1000x gain just to match what Bitcoin is now.

so, he says XMR market cap (1000x gain from todays prices, fully mined).. will be around 62,165,527.28 (sixty-two million) BTC (or about 3x as many BTC as will ever be created within the next 126 years). I'm not so optimistic, to put it mildly so I will make some calculations on just a 10x increase

If XMR was to shoot up 1000% of todays current price overnight, to ~0.03 it would overtake all the fully-mined coins such as DRK, NXT, Ripple, by a significant margin, and sit just below LTC. despite only ~15% being distributed. If you were to buy after it shot up, god help you- you would need to expect it to reach a market cap of ~600,000 BTC, or roughly 2x higher than LTC within a relatively short time period 4 years or so in order to not lose money if you were hodling. (just operating under the assumption none of the other coins move for simplicitys sake)

If you talk about expecting that same overnight 1000% increase for BBR, it's market cap will be around the level of shitcoins such as marinecoin, monacoin, zetacoin. Can that happen? why the hell not. Will it happen in such inefficent markets- who knows. If you were to buy at the 10x increase, In the same 4 year emission period as XMR, you should expect it to rise around the level of (23,700 BTC) - near maidsafe and dogecoin in order to not lose money. We are talking about a 576 thousand, three hundred BTC difference in that case!! Would XMR warrant being valued that much more than BBR? Within a 10 year period, you should still expect it to rank below darkcoin with a market cap of ~37,363 btc or 16x lower than monero to stay in the black. STILL near enough five-hundred and sixty-three thousand BTC difference (again assuming the rest of the market stays static for simplicitys sake)

I think there is a place for at least one cryptonote coin in this scene for sure, I hold XMR and BBR. No denying XMR is the one with stickiness and it's the one I can feel more relaxed in parking money in knowing few BTC worth of sells or buys will have no impact on the market like it does with BBR, yet purely from a gambling perspective I know which one of those scenarios I consider more likely. And I absolutely believe BBR is undervalued- It's at less than half the cap of ducknote for god sake, and that coin has block halving every month, 80% mined within the year..