Quote from: DrApricot on September 01, 2014, 08:47:06 PM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 01, 2014, 06:38:41 PM

One important question that I have yet to see answered is how the claims are to be computed.

Many clients seem to assume that the amount they can claim is simply the BTC and currency balances in their MtGOX account, by the time the site was shut down (or at some earlier date).

However, some people who claim to be familiar with bankruptcy cases have claimed that the standard procedure in such cases is to ignore the balances (which are fictitious anyway, since they are the result of trading coins and money that did not exist), and define a client's claim instead as being only the amounts he deposited minus the amounts he withdrew, summed over all time, converting BTC to JPY by the market price at the moment of deposit or withdrawal.

Obviously the two methods will give very different results. A client who has a huge claim under one interpretation may be excluded under the other, and vice-versa.

Was any information offered recently about which method will be followed by Mr. Kobayashi?

I can see the merit of this means of accounting were it a proven fact that Mt. Gox was running a fractional reserve. However, if there never were more than the 200,000 or so coins currently admitted to have been found in the old-format wallet, then all trades were actually based on "real" coins and never fake ones.

There are philosophical argumens for and against both methods of counting claims, and of course each client will find one of them fair. The question is which one will Mr. Kobayashi use. Some people claim what he has no choice given the laws and precedents, some claim that he may choose either one.

Since there have been no comments about this issue (and surely there will be, whatever the choice), It seems that either no one thought of asking that question at the meeting, or it was asked and he refused to answer.

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Also, I'm curious how the bankruptcy court would deal with bitcoinbuilder's claims? Gox/btc were auctioned off and transferred to him in exchange for withdrawing real btc through his web site. Would these Gox/btc that he holds be considered "real"? Since no new coins were ever deposited to Mt. Gox by bitcoinbuilder, then it would appear under this procedure that virtually all his claims are void and so are those of his clients.

If bitcoinbuilder's CEO believes that he is the current legal owner of some GOXCoins, because he bought the rights to them off-exchange from MtGOX clients, I suppose that he should submit a claim with proof of those purchases, and it will be evaluated like the other claims. Under one interpretation, I suppose that he would claim to be the rightful owner of a certain number of BTC in the balances of those clients' MtGOX's accounts. Under the other interpretation, he would claim to be entitled to (some fraction of) whatever those clients deposited, minus whatever they withdrew, over their history at MtGOX.