I bet they tag you when you buy (bc with fiat) and flag you when you sell (bc for fiat)

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Good Show Charlie! Excellent work.

Good insights, but remember that when you have to walk miles to move money, SMS is a godsend! It's all relative. Google "Mpesa" The heavy work would have to be done on the delivery side, so that people are sending identifying information and transactions amounts to the middle office. There is also the possibility of using SIM cards (Unlike the US, SIM Cards are the norm in most countries). What do you think of: 

http://gigaom.com/mobile/facebook-sim-card-uses-sms-gemalto/

Yes, cards would be cheaper, the problem is that for the "1 billion Indians" that you speak of, there are no bank branches, no bank accounts, thus no cards in their hands. Why does this matter? It matters b/c most of the merchants they frequent do no have a POS device. The developing world is leap frogging over brick and mortar to mobile. Them's the facts. You are correct in pointing out that that smart phones are not the norm yet. SMS is.  So if one were dedicated to developing a solution for the masses, it would be an SMS based system something that runs on something like "whispernet". Actually this would be easy, but it would require development of a middle office and some investment capital. When you free up a bit, I'd love to discuss further. And yes I have the facts and figures by country on a global basis....somewhere

Western democracies are indeed looking to extend the current card based platform for as long as they can.  That said, mobile payments is the future particularly among the youth under 30, of the western democracies.  As for the rest of world, which is larger than the North America, Europe & Australia, card based systems are not in the... wait for it... "cards"     (I know a bit lame) b/c there is no point in going backwards to install the old infrastructure that we are busy milking. Card payments rode to prominence on land lines and a government back postal system with carriers, zip codes, etc.  For most of the planet, where ever you go, there you are! You will be known/located by your cell phone. No need to stamp out plastic cards to be mailed to non existent addresses, to run on non existent or very thin land lines.

Clearly, we will need a dual system for some time to come. That said, BTC solutions should be low cost, secure and readily accessible.

Hasn't Paypal launched a private label version of Square or perhaps Square's competitor Isis? It'll be interesting to see if Square can carve out a portion of the market place beyond their utility function.  My bet is that they'll be acquired before they can.

Stephen Gornick interesting in theory, but I think it's a bit trickier to move from mag strip (which triggers the debit or credit card networks) to ACH like Dwolla. When a card is swiped the "merchant acquirer's" bank/card processor is contacted to effect clearing settlement.  It is possible that Square could put in a middle office that takes all mag strip "calls" and routes them according to "on us" vs "off-us" transactions where "on us" are transactions where both parties have Square "wallets" and thus like Dwolla would be a cheap ACH transfer.  So, while I can see the utility developing a large user base, I cannot yet imagine how Square is not just another interface into the Visa/MC networks.

How would Square switch to having accounts? Whose accounts? The customer's or the merchants? How would funds get into those accounts? 

At present, all physical POS methods rely on the Visa/MC networks.

Dwolla uses the ACH to move money among bank accounts. Eventually they could move into prepaid/debit cards. If they do they would run their payments on the existing VISA/MC payments networks.

Paypal also uses ACH as its base. Their payment cards run on the VISA/MC networks.  For vendors wishing to accept card payments, Paypal offers a private label version of ISIS or Square (not sure which) hardware.  You know--those portable plastic mag strip readers that attach to cell phones enabling mobile VISA/MC payments.

One might be able to repurpose those ISIS or Square devices. They read the mag strip and send that data along with the merchant # and courtesy amount to a previously established phone number... ultimately Paypal's third party card processor's data center.

No, don't be rash. Visit on holidays, marry a Yankee if you dare, but move? Why? Canada is a very nice, clean, and uncomplicated place.

Makes a lot of sense to separate commerce from content. LadyBytes thinking about the commerce end of the business is a sound one and will likely result in a higher caliber and classier outcome. 

Similarly, it makes a lot of sense to create woman's oriented content which is decidely different. For example one of the largest sales forces on earth is Avon, and women tend to be the most avid users of Facebook. Women also take the lead in the day-to-day purchase of food and clothing as well as healthcare. So clearly, BTCs need equal access to flourish.

Initially, makes sense to colocate, as the community grows, not so much.

Maybe they are forward thinking and they are developing a digital currency back by gold to be used for international clearing of debit and credit transactions.

I'd like to be able to select my "ship to country" and see only the inventory available for shipment to me.

So, what do you think of the P2P upstart BUMP?

I think I'm seeing a thinly veiled threat or maybe I hearing a dog whistle?

"but that could change very suddenly... Without that backing or a similar power base, Bitcoin lives with the ever-present risk of failure."

Well, I may have been a bit hasty in writing that opinion.  Since then I've taken a look at the vid that benjamindees has posted, and the technology is indeed impressive. If these cards and readers are adopted in the broader marketplace then repurposing them will indeed have been a great insight.  The logic behind decisioning in this matter is simple. The S curves for  the merchant and consumer adoption rates are not uniform. In this case we would be somewhat dependent upon merchant adoption rates as you'd want merchants in "closed" or "protected" markets to blend in with the "norm."  More importantly, for distributed or open systems, it is far better to have a symbiotic relationship with the dominant design. I am a huge proponent of commensalism, (a class of relationship between two organisms where one organism benefits but the other is neutral-- with no ill effects or benefit) when designing alternative payment systems.

Best practice would suggest that the next step is to get a sense of the reaction to this technology. Is MC going to push it across their installed base? Do the biggest card issuers see an advantage in adopting this new technology, and if so, will they push the cycle time (meaning faster than the normal replacement rate of the cards already in the hands of their customers) What are the odds makers predicting (Gartner Group, Sullivan and Frost, etc.) in terms of adoption rates?

The above notwithstanding, I continue to believe that we must crack the code on mobile devices, as card usage will likely NEVER take root on most of this planet. Indeed, the average person throughout the Pacific Rim, Central and South America and Africa are already embracing "mobile banking." (The top 10 telcos are making a big push, Verizon is # 18 globally and the Gates Foundation has mounted a major offensive.)  It can be difficult for most of us to appreciate just how large this market is (people not petro dollars) b/c we tend to travel the Epcot Center route when doing business within but particularly outside our western democracies. Of equally important consideration, since a good deal of the world's supply chains originate in these markets, overlooking them would be a fatal error over the long run.


Guess I misunderstood, and assumed that the "businesses" in your outline are elements of markets by "Geography."  I'd suggest that we separate Businesses from Geographies, making "Grandma" 4th generation.

Yes, there will be significant overlap between these two markets, (like a Rubix cube) however, both categories are sufficiently large and complex that breaking them into two will make them easier to understand and our work less prone to error. I would further argue that one tends to think of countries from the bottom up (conditions on the ground) and Industries regionally and ultimately Globally, or top down.  Of course, all change resides in the individual and thus is local by definition. So designs derived in think tanks, no matter how diverse and multicultural, will be best customized and disseminated by actual users under their actual market conditions.

Thanks for link. Excellent Technology!

benjamindees here's a question for you. Could we issue these cards here in the US, buy the hardware and use the chip as form of Cold Storage? With an eye toward make these cards dual wallets (USD & BTCs)?

Well if the intent is to enable payments with less friction (expense) and fewer middlemen, for people under duress, then the next markets should be strategic in terms of assisting people with the means of survival (food, shelter, clothing) Using Greece as an example, food and beverage distributors who can link into their regional supply chains (Europe) as well as local retail distribution would probably make a lot of sense.  

But still noodling on the central role of smart cards. I totally get why smart cards could provide access and anonymity on a distributed basis, and that the plastic and its chip has little inherent value until loaded with BTCs. But introducing a new product into a system, a product that requires additional hardware no matter how pocket sized, by its very definition attracts attention. If a citizen is stopped and searched will the mere possession of a branded smart card become probably cause?  

If only we could start a new healthy vitamin enriched beverage line sold via vending machines that has free mini smart cards attached to the bottles, and folks have to take those BTC cards into their local stores to be read so that they can see if they won the "BIG PRIZE" which of course is the act of buying and reading the cards.... now that would be a clever trick.