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Re: Pics of Large Miner Hosting Center Under Construction
An unopened bottle of silver Patron is on the counter waiting for the install of miner #500.
Looks and sounds great, man
Just give me enough notice in advance and I come over to join you in your celebration 
Hm... i only now, when you mentioned this, realized that toomim brothers are a competitor of AsicSpace. Even though the investigation sounds trustworthy... this can hardly be seen as an independent investigation then. I thought they are hardware nerds who can check those things out. But letting the competitor decide if the competition made an error is not really something that comes to mind when one wants an independent investigation about the source of the problems. I dont say anything, i only point out a conflict of interests.
And why the fuck would there have to be an independent investigation anyways? Because you would like it?
If ASICSPACE wants this investigation, then they should do so and PAY FOR IT.
We kindly asked Jonathan to assess the damage to our equipment and the cause, because we need to decide whether it is ASICCRAP to sue or BITMAIN. What right do you have to claim an independent investigation? If you want a different consultant doing an "independent" investigation, go ahead. Hire some consultant and get it done. For now, you got to live with what is on the table and you either take that or you don't.
But please don't come up with the call for an "independent" investigation, as this is needed. It does not alter the tuth in Jonathans statement by an inch, if he is now rsponsible for our equipment or not. The damage was done beforehand.
I dont say anything, ...
truer words have never been spoken. You always come up with the most ridiculous claims and the request for a observatory stance like this is Kindergarten.
Fuck this. Damage has been done, ASICCRAP is not paying up and customers of theirs are not getting reimbursed for the damage.
It is a good thing, that Damir is gone. Now, only 2 more are left to be dealt with.
Robert van Kirk and Geoff Smith, two fucking cowards who cannot deal with taking their share of responsibility like a man should.
Unfortunately, they are spending it on the wrong things,
right, like e.g. paying back the damage they did to our equipment and the fees for services they never rendered to us
jtoomim... im impressed from this investigation. Looks like you do this properly. And i like that you really seem to be independent since you dont follow the words of one side in this easily. If i would be in mining business i would definitely use your service in case i need it.
If i would be in mining business i would definitely use your service in case i need it.... and thats why we host 200 S5 with Jonathan and hope, that ASICCRAP bites the dust...
Thanks Jonathan for the hard and dedicated work you did put into this.
You're also better off sticking with what you know and not arguing with Jared. I wouldn't put his working knowledge of creating mines too far above the people he left behind who cooked your units, and I think even you can see he's here more to argue than to solve anything. Circular logic and speculation, are exactly that. Good for you for having the balls to stand up to these folks. Of course the twits here are going to poke all kinds of holes in what you're doing. Fair point though, you won't see a criminal prosecution out of this, so go for civil. Good luck.
Thanks for the advice and the heads up !
CEX.IO is the perfect scam.
While testing them, I intiated a payout for 250 USD. After having entered all the required bank data, this dialogue evolved:
April 16th: Cex.IO "user support" asks about the bank details. I reply, which specific details further than the one already provided would be required.
April 20th: No answer yet from CEX.io "user support". I ask them again, which details are needed or if the process continues. In their status screens, the transaction is flagged as "completed, wire sent".
April 21th: Cex.IO "user support" once again request correspondent banks details. Again, I ask them which specific information they are missing which they have not yet been given from me. They apologize and state, that they will come back at a later time.
April 22nd: I order them to cancel the transaction, so that I have access to my funds again and can at least trade in BTC.
April 23rd: I order them again to cancel the transaction.
April 24th: I get a reply from CEX.IO "user support" asking for "Bank name, Adress of the bank, IBAN, SWIFT, Country of the bank"
April 30th: I once again order them to cancel the transfer. Nothing as of yet. I cc'ed the complaint desk financial authorities in GB and Estonia.
I can only strongly advise anyone, not to use cex.io and their exchange. The internet is full of stories like mine, user who have experienced tremendous troubles when trying to withdraw funds from CEX.io.
While testing them, I intiated a payout for 250 USD. After having entered all the required bank data, this dialogue evolved:
April 16th: Cex.IO "user support" asks about the bank details. I reply, which specific details further than the one already provided would be required.
April 20th: No answer yet from CEX.io "user support". I ask them again, which details are needed or if the process continues. In their status screens, the transaction is flagged as "completed, wire sent".
April 21th: Cex.IO "user support" once again request correspondent banks details. Again, I ask them which specific information they are missing which they have not yet been given from me. They apologize and state, that they will come back at a later time.
April 22nd: I order them to cancel the transaction, so that I have access to my funds again and can at least trade in BTC.
April 23rd: I order them again to cancel the transaction.
April 24th: I get a reply from CEX.IO "user support" asking for "Bank name, Adress of the bank, IBAN, SWIFT, Country of the bank"
April 30th: I once again order them to cancel the transfer. Nothing as of yet. I cc'ed the complaint desk financial authorities in GB and Estonia.
I can only strongly advise anyone, not to use cex.io and their exchange. The internet is full of stories like mine, user who have experienced tremendous troubles when trying to withdraw funds from CEX.io.
Is it criminal, perhaps if a pattern of willful misconduct can be shown but that is a much higher bar to cross and it will be tough to claim without hard evidence, which in itself might be hard to come by..
Yep, and this is virtually impossible, at least with the given evidence at hand and the limited availability of other customers willing to sue (they have intends, but fear the costs which would add on to their losses).
Now I'm not an esteemed criminal justice major like yourself, sir, but that to me looks like $200,000 worth of means and intent to deliver.
This is not ASICSPACEs property. They are managing this, but it is not theirs. They own jack shit and their net value is close to 0.
You know far less than you should, if your claims are true and you know them so well.
Lets agree to disagree and be done with it.
That doesn't make them criminals, and neither does this.
This is the business world. You signed a contract* and paid money. Asicspace failed to deliver as promised, thus defaulting on their side of the contract. That is not theft, that is default.
This is the business world. You signed a contract* and paid money. Asicspace failed to deliver as promised, thus defaulting on their side of the contract. That is not theft, that is default.
Sorry, but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to legal issues.
You do neither know the content of the contract, the details that have been agreed upon nor the exact chain of events.
Yet, you jump from one assumption to the next assumption, where your clearly lack the required facts upon which your statements should be based in the first place.
That is just not how it works buddy.
They attempted to operate your equipment per the contract and the heat it produced damaged it. They are not criminally liable for this by any law. This is a civil and contractual dispute. I know you aren't in the U.S., but do you really not have this concept of civil court versus criminal court? Theft versus contractual dispute?
I give you a couple hints here, legal lessons for free: the contract is void, due to their inability to perform in the first place. It has been virtually impossible for them to fulfill.
Your lawyer will explain the rest to you. Or wikipedia. Where ever you get your knowledge from these days.
You demanded your equipment be removed long before the contract had ended, and before any investigation that any court would expect could have been completed. You defaulted on the contract as well.
Again, you mix up things where you have no idea how the legal system works: I have at no time given up my ownership of anything. This is like you claiming, that a car parked in a parking garage is during that time the property of the parking garage owner. This is pure nonsense.
Both sides are in default. In my opinion you should get part of your money back, probably most, but I am in no position to judge how much and don't want to be. That's why we have courts.
Jeez, you are contradicting yourself in two sentences: First, you claim both sides are at fault, then you state, that you are in no position to judge at all. Stick to the latter, please!
Quote
Asicspace has not blundered.
I'm not sure what you call a long network outage followed by high temperatures on a hot day, but I'm pretty sure someone screwed up somewhere. If they had criminal intent they would have taken everything from everyone and fled. But they are still there, still mining, and they still have paying customers, some happy, some unhappy. What part of that doesn't sound like a blunder?
I'm not sure what you call a long network outage followed by high temperatures on a hot day, but I'm pretty sure someone screwed up somewhere. If they had criminal intent they would have taken everything from everyone and fled. But they are still there, still mining, and they still have paying customers, some happy, some unhappy. What part of that doesn't sound like a blunder?
Again: You are the customer any criminal wishes for. I have seen plenty of your type during the boiler room days.
The intent, the sole intent of the whole operation is not to deliver services. It is to screw their customers over and over and over again.
Be it that the miners are set to mine into their own pockets. Be it, that they deliver less power than paid for. Be it, that they manage and administrate the property of other parties recklessly with no regards to ownership.
This is all the big picture and the driver behind this is criminal intent.
A blunder is an accident. This "blunder" however is an event that happened due to a gamble: the gamble from their sides, whether they could despite their lack of knowledge and technical capabilities deliver a contract that they had nearly no means for to deliver. And which they knew.
At the moment they accepted that gamble, they were hiding the truth, lying and cheating. They did this with intent and hence they did this with criminal energy. Fraud.
They were desperate to get the deal, desperate enough to not care what would have been best in both interests and reckless, when the time would have been right to take responsibility and get things straight again.
Asicspace isn't perfect, no one is. I know they do not have any intentions to scam anyone.
Understood. They finally got someone out here from their crew to calm things down and get their reputation back.
Well, thats one way to earn a Dollar
As far as I can tell, nothing even you have accused them of is against the law.
You have a funny understanding of the law.
Asicspace has not blundered. They have stolen my money, damaged my property and bent the truth in each and every conversation.
Who has the worse intent, Asicspace who may have blundered(both cooling, network, and customer service) but may not be 100% to blame, or you who wants to see them burn regardless of the facts?
Oh, I am interested in the truth, it just so happens you do not have it.
If that is your kind of company to keep, please be welcome to do so.
Well, maybe they just fucked with the wrong guy this time and yes, I want to see them burn for this. And I will.
I honestly think the plastic sheets are a red herring completely.
Nope. The deformation perfectly shows, that the internal heat has been causing this, as the hot air was blown out of the casing and hence causing this type of deformation. The logos are not in an area where any air circulation happens but the sides between the screws are. Your theory for external impact due to move and such surely would have caused such random effects and on logos as well. The type of damage you see here, being consistent on all machines, shows that the hot air was taking its way all from inside to outside, going through the slits between the screws and hence deforming the shielding.
That said, if a customer hasn't paid their bills, they can't retrieve their equipment. Hosters have big electricity bills and other bills to pay, none of whom give a damn if your customers haven't paid their bills. And clearly your hardware did run up its portion of an electricity bill, ...
If you are implying, i did not pay my bill, you are in the wrong again. I payed them 4661 USD for service and energy upfront for a month.
They managed to get all this damage done in a couple hours, so I guess, not much energy was needed for that. Since then they refuse to either assist in repaying the damage nor paying back the bill they never provided anything for but trouble.
Do you happen to have more pictures you could post and/or send me? That is actually very very suspicious. I know of bitcoin mines that had spots of up to 135F(57C, some with GPU, some with bitfury hw). The bitfuries had few failures, and the GPU farm had mostly PSU failures. I've personally run AM hardware at 45C stably, and know of other mines that ran (for a time) at upwards of 76C with bitmain hardware and afterwards ran at 49C for a long time, and had a lower failure rate than that.
All that said, I've been in that DC a bunch and know their cooling pretty well. I'm sure it got hot, but I really have a hard time believing that it got above 57C without a major cooling failure(Which, conspiracy theories aside, doesn't seem to be the case). And that's where my background is important, as I've designed and built the cooling for 4 or 5 bitcoin mines now. The record day was 27C at peak, so that would be a 30C temperature rise, which is crazy.
Even if you doubt me or my background, I'd be really careful about making the central point of your investigation/case a > 57C ambient temperature, because they may have/gather other data and if they prove you wrong, your entire case falls apart.
All that said, I've been in that DC a bunch and know their cooling pretty well. I'm sure it got hot, but I really have a hard time believing that it got above 57C without a major cooling failure(Which, conspiracy theories aside, doesn't seem to be the case). And that's where my background is important, as I've designed and built the cooling for 4 or 5 bitcoin mines now. The record day was 27C at peak, so that would be a 30C temperature rise, which is crazy.
Even if you doubt me or my background, I'd be really careful about making the central point of your investigation/case a > 57C ambient temperature, because they may have/gather other data and if they prove you wrong, your entire case falls apart.
As said. If you want to know more, you need to contact Jonathan. Pictures do not help here any longer for any serious investigation.
Listen to other customers here. I have been contacted by a dozen, whom machines do not answer any longer and who only can see and get a couple of them working again.
All I can tell you is, that ASICSPACE is being run by a bunch of criminals. Maybe you know them, maybe they are not longer the people you once knew.
Today, all that they are is a bunch of crooks with highly criminal intent.
I expect, that I will never see any dime from them. But I will make sure, that they pay the bill.
Ok. So why did you make claims that it might have been 100C to deform it? You can practically deform it with your hand. By your own admission you must have known this. Why make such claims?
There is a huge difference in a material being easily able to be bent by physical force and material sitting in a shelf being deformed by heat. I will put a 1.200 watt blowdryer on the weekend against one of my S5s sides (gotta pick one) and we will see the outcome. I will measure the heat at impact, ok?
I know this to be at least partially untrue, but it is all secondhand information. However you and I can definitely agree that things weren't handled right, and that this was not how a hoster should treat their customers.
Yes, and no hoster should have the customer get aid from the police to retrieve his equipment.
Right, and it will be good to have their assistance; keeping in mind that they also have a very strong impetus to avoid both the liability for the hardware and the reputation impact that it would have if they admitted any fault such as automatic shut-off temperatures not working. Bitmain are good guys, I know them, but they are also very clever. If Bitmain can avoid reputation impact by pinning 100% of the blame on another party, they will likely do so even if a failure on their side contributed to 20% of the problem or more.
Agreed. I am suspicious of Bitmain as well, but to have such an error quote in such a short time frame under the same conditions, with only me claiming these errors seems to statistically less relevant and only an option to pursue after all other reason have been ruled out.
50% of what boards? 50% of the pieces of plastic? I'd say that's rough handling or the result of running in a BTC mine. 50% of the circuit boards have a capacitor blown? Now this would be some useful data. Yes, I would agree that if you have 50% of S5 boards with visible capacitors blown like that I'd agree that you either have a major electrical problem(more likely, although I know the electrical is pretty solid there) or a major heat problem(heat affects chips more than capacitors).
50% of S5 boards with visible capacitors blown or similar damages.
What you mean to say is, it isn't helping your angry arguments. Lets just try sticking to the facts, shall we?
Agreed.
Thanks, I will bring this to the knowledge of Bitmain to have this investigated in our current case. Very helpful, thank you.
YOU accused them of dangerous temperatures upwards of 100C based on photos that you didn't even realize was flimsy plastic. As coinits points out, there may even be a bug at fault that neither you nor asicspace knew about that would have Bitmain share the blame here.
I have friggin S5 here at my place, so again: Do not jump to conclusions if you want to appear as someone applying rational thinking. Because you are not, you are assuming again.
Since you clearly don't know how to evaluate the damage or the responsible party, your accusations are really just going to make you look like an angry asshole instead of a poor mistreated customer.
Again: assumptions. You neither know my background nor anything else, yet you seem to know it all.
For all I know, you have no idea at all about anything.
And besides that, you are wrong: A hoster is responsible for the hosted equipment, hence ASICSPACE should have taken action once they recognized the damage. The truth is, ASICCRAP was at no point in time aware of the damage, as they simply had not taken a single look at the machines but rather said something about network issues, slight heat problems etc.
If this was not about hiding, then it was about incompetence. And what knowledge do we have about systematic S5 failures? Right, none. Bitmain has a faultrate, which is by far below 1% They disclosed this and much more when working on the systematic evaluation of the situation and are doing so right now in Denver.
Does this look like "slight heat problems" to you, if 50% of the boards look like this?
Ah, you do not need to answer, it does not contribute in any way to the solution of the problem.
Jesus that's bad. I assume there is no warranty because it is human error.
EDIT: Did they not form an LLC and obtain Liability Insurance? People need to ask to see that.
EDIT: Did they not form an LLC and obtain Liability Insurance? People need to ask to see that.
No insurance is gonna pay for mishandling
This would require them to admit to be in the wrong.That is what liability insurance is for. Mine keeps my clients protected if I fuck up. I have never been sued so over time my rates go down but all that it takes is one major fuck up of incompetence and they would either drop my coverage or jack my rates exponentially but at least my client would be covered.
Them not having this is sad.
Thank you for clarifiying this. I understand the nature of the insurance policy now. Well, they at least never offered to use it so I guess, they do not have it
Jesus that's bad. I assume there is no warranty because it is human error.
EDIT: Did they not form an LLC and obtain Liability Insurance? People need to ask to see that.
EDIT: Did they not form an LLC and obtain Liability Insurance? People need to ask to see that.
No insurance is gonna pay for mishandling
This would require ASICCRAP to admit to be in the wrong.One thing that I would investigate is that the internet connection had been lost. If your scour the Antminer S5 OP I seem to remember someone saying that their S5 fan slowed down after losing internet connection but the machine kept on running at full throttle to the point that if they had not been there watching it happen the machine world have burned up.
I do not know how you can prove that this happened in this case but if that did occur then you will have a warranty claim.
Also, scouring that OP, others have claimed that the 80°C fail-safe does not work either.
I do not know how you can prove that this happened in this case but if that did occur then you will have a warranty claim.
Also, scouring that OP, others have claimed that the 80°C fail-safe does not work either.
Chances are close to zero to get a warranty for this, as even Bitmain seems to know meanwhile whats up with ASICCRAP.
It was a necessary decision to move quick and void warranty or to leave things there and go the lengthy and probably unsuccessful route of claims and lies and more lies. ASICCRAP would have never handled the return process properly.
Jonathan should know this stuff too, he's a smart guy, so I am surprised he sent you those pictures as evidence of heat damage.
Jonathan is smart; if Toomim is truly as awesome as you say, they should be held to a higher standard than pictures like these for an "investigation."
Jonathan is smart; if Toomim is truly as awesome as you say, they should be held to a higher standard than pictures like these for an "investigation."
No where have I stated, that this is the conclusion of Jonathan. So leave him out of this, unless he himself makes any statement that you can comment on. The blame for misinterpreting or misunderstanding the damage is full on me.
Jonathan is still working on getting to the root of this and especially to find a way, if any, to get the damage repaired. Give him a call if you want, tell him he can release the info to you if he wishes, including more pics.
This is my statement and I have all rights to be fucking angry with ASICCRAP and accusing them of mishandling my stuff in any way I want
Side Bar: We have been with Toomim since the beginning. They know what they are doing, are responsive and a pleasure to work with.
Yes, they are truly the best. I can't imagine getting any better service with anyone.
We are now hosting another 100 S5 with them on top of the left overs from the desaster with ASICCRAP.
Jonathan is also extremly knowledgable in all aspects of the bitcoin technology, not just hosting, energy and such but hardware and components as well.
Wow. How could they managed to do that?
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Because ASICCRAP is fucking stupid. Look at this. Deformed by HEAT. Tell me, how much heat you think is required to do this damage? 100 Degrees C?
http://i.imgur.com/dsKxjPv.jpg
