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And here I was thinking I could give a try to this after the CoinLenders debacle. 
The idea of distributing risk when lending to people was interesting, I hope someone comes up with a better implementation of it.
I have come up with a solution to the lending problem, I know it needs work put the core concept would work just fine. Here is a quote to my thread on the subject. The idea of distributing risk when lending to people was interesting, I hope someone comes up with a better implementation of it.My Proposal:
Looking for partners to develop a new crypto-coin system, this system is intended to work with Bitcoin and not to be an alternative to Bitcoin. The projects name is Lend-n-Vest and involves the creation of new crypto-coins dubbed LoanCoin, LendCoin and HedgeCoin. The Lend-n-Vest system of crypto-coins will be designed to solve two of the oldest financial problems in existence, 'how to loan money without the risk of a loss in your investment' AND 'how to borrow money without the risk of defaulting on the loan.' The concept is fairly simple, but the implementation will be complex. In essence the concept goes like this:
1. An investor has X amount of funds that they wish to make a profit on by loaning the funds to a trustworthy entity.
2. A trustworthy entity needs funding for a startup project, business, home purchase, to fund their education, etc...
The scenario;
After doing much research the investor has found several possible candidates that seem like good investments but is a little disappointed about the cost of fee's involved in traditional investment packages and the possibility of potentially loosing 100% of the investment in a direct loan if the debtor is unsuccessful or fraudulent. The investor finds the proposal of the pre-mentioned entity very attractive because the person/project/business has great potential and is inline with the investors personal interests. Additionally the investor is atracked to the investment because it has a wonderful altruistic social component.
The problem for the investor is that despite the fact that the investor would love to give the person/project/business a chance to succeed the investor cannot be sure of the trustworthiness of the entity nor the financial viability of the person/project/business. Traditionally the investor would most likely avoid investing in the candidates because of the risks and except the lower returns of traditional investments for the sake of financial security.
This is a shame because many wonderful ideas, innovations and a great deal of progress has never been realized due to the human tendency to avoid risk. This is where the Lend-n-Vest system can make a revolutionary change in society.
This is the option the investor would have with the Lend-n-Vest system:
Finding a worthy person/project/business the investor purchases X number of LoanCoins. Each LoanCoin is packaged with one LendCoin and one HedgeCoin. LoanCoins have a maturity date and mature at a value that is equal to the original purchase plus interest. The value of a LoanCoin on its maturity date is guaranteed. LendCoins are worth a small fraction of its associated LoanCoin. HedgeCoins have an initial value of 'zero' on the day of it's creation. This initial value of a LendCoin changes inversely against the value of some base crypto-coin (likely Bitcoin) The value of a LoanCoin is Locked buy its cousin the HedgeCoin and its maturity date is not set until its associated LendCoin is liquidated by converting it into another crypto-coin (cashing it). A LendCoin is destroyed when it is converted. HedgeCoins are processed immediately and function like options. HedgeCoins can function independently of LoanCoins and therefore can always be used to persevere the value an investment giving the HedgeCoin extra value. HedgeCoins will have a guaranteed value based on its inverse function and can be traded for a [HedgeCoin(+)premium] market value. Furthermore LoanCoins, for the sake of liquidity, can be traded before their maturity date, this gives the investor the option to make a short term or longterm investment or adjust their investment plan when needed. After maturity a LoanCoin can be converted for its value in the original crypto-coin it was based on. Like its counterpart the LendCoin, the mature LoanCoin is destroyed when converted.
The Lend-n-Vest system is also intended to allow miners to profitably use their existing hardware. With the advent of ASICs many miners are finding that their expensive hardware is losing its usefulness for mining. The new hardware is pushing many miners out of the game and is threatening to create the all to familiar 'the rich get richer and the poor get poorer' situation. I think that this is something that most in the Bitcoin community wish to avoid. By arranging the mining procedure in such a way that restricts the three Lend-n-Vest coins so that miners with the most powerful hardware have to rely on those miners with older slower hardware will equalize the situation. There are many ways to do this and since value is a product of work done for coin generation it can be fair and equitable.
One such solution would be that ASIC miners generate the LoanCoins, FPGA miners generate LendCoins and ASIC/FPGA miners pay GPU miners to generate the HedgeCoin (the third and essential part of the Lend-n-Vest system.) By changing difficulty levels, including an automatic donation to lower level miners and a dynamic reward distribution based on hashing power distribution, miners with newer hardware will be encouraged to fund hardware upgrades for those with older hardware. This process can continue even if ASIC technology is replaced by something more advanced. For example; if the conformation speed of blocks found is dependent on support miners with GPUs then ASIC miners will want to increase their donation percentage so that GPU miners can upgrade to FPGAs.
By wisely adjusting difficulty levels over time, the general strength and hardware advancement will increase for all and leaving no one out if they wish to join in. Lets say that at some point in the future there is no one left on the generation network using GPUs. Then, someone somewhere gets onto the network and begins to mine with a GPU. This causes everyone's numbers drop enough that they want to fix the problem, donations go up, then the new miner upgrades (because the miner will have a much greater profit if they upgrade) and everything returns to normal.
Now, the LoanCoin and LendCoin work together in this manner, an investor purchases/mines LoanCoins, with the purchase of the LoanCoins are included an equal number of LendCoins and HedgeCoins. The investor finds a worthy cause and gives the LendCoins to the individuals. Yes that's right, gives away the LendCoins free of charge. You see, the profit is built into the Lend-n-Vest system. The investor is guaranteed to make their profit when their LoanCoins meet maturely!
The LendCoins are worth much less than their associated LoanCoin, in fact they are to be worth around 10-20% of the Lend-n-Vest coin package. Of the 10-20% only 5% or so percent of the original LoanCoin value will be available to the receiver but that 5% or so percent is generated value and does not deduct from the Lend-n-Vest systemcoin purchase amount! In addition most of the fees involved are paid by generated value.
At this point in development it is assumed that very little or none of the original investment is lost or spent. This is the security of the investment! Most of the extra value is accomplished through a clever arrangement of merged mining. The purpose of the HedgeCoin is to preserve the investors capital against the fluctuation of crypto-currency markets as well as to provide general stability in the markets and provide an additional profit opportunity.
What this all boils down to is that the investment funds are being lent to the Lend-n-Vest system and the investor is paid an interest for their investment. The added bonus is that the investor is able to finance and provide support for causes that the investor cares about. It will be Philanthropy realized!
I really want to see this happen so lets get it done!
Thanks for your consideration!
Looking for partners to develop a new crypto-coin system, this system is intended to work with Bitcoin and not to be an alternative to Bitcoin. The projects name is Lend-n-Vest and involves the creation of new crypto-coins dubbed LoanCoin, LendCoin and HedgeCoin. The Lend-n-Vest system of crypto-coins will be designed to solve two of the oldest financial problems in existence, 'how to loan money without the risk of a loss in your investment' AND 'how to borrow money without the risk of defaulting on the loan.' The concept is fairly simple, but the implementation will be complex. In essence the concept goes like this:
1. An investor has X amount of funds that they wish to make a profit on by loaning the funds to a trustworthy entity.
2. A trustworthy entity needs funding for a startup project, business, home purchase, to fund their education, etc...
The scenario;
After doing much research the investor has found several possible candidates that seem like good investments but is a little disappointed about the cost of fee's involved in traditional investment packages and the possibility of potentially loosing 100% of the investment in a direct loan if the debtor is unsuccessful or fraudulent. The investor finds the proposal of the pre-mentioned entity very attractive because the person/project/business has great potential and is inline with the investors personal interests. Additionally the investor is atracked to the investment because it has a wonderful altruistic social component.
The problem for the investor is that despite the fact that the investor would love to give the person/project/business a chance to succeed the investor cannot be sure of the trustworthiness of the entity nor the financial viability of the person/project/business. Traditionally the investor would most likely avoid investing in the candidates because of the risks and except the lower returns of traditional investments for the sake of financial security.
This is a shame because many wonderful ideas, innovations and a great deal of progress has never been realized due to the human tendency to avoid risk. This is where the Lend-n-Vest system can make a revolutionary change in society.
This is the option the investor would have with the Lend-n-Vest system:
Finding a worthy person/project/business the investor purchases X number of LoanCoins. Each LoanCoin is packaged with one LendCoin and one HedgeCoin. LoanCoins have a maturity date and mature at a value that is equal to the original purchase plus interest. The value of a LoanCoin on its maturity date is guaranteed. LendCoins are worth a small fraction of its associated LoanCoin. HedgeCoins have an initial value of 'zero' on the day of it's creation. This initial value of a LendCoin changes inversely against the value of some base crypto-coin (likely Bitcoin) The value of a LoanCoin is Locked buy its cousin the HedgeCoin and its maturity date is not set until its associated LendCoin is liquidated by converting it into another crypto-coin (cashing it). A LendCoin is destroyed when it is converted. HedgeCoins are processed immediately and function like options. HedgeCoins can function independently of LoanCoins and therefore can always be used to persevere the value an investment giving the HedgeCoin extra value. HedgeCoins will have a guaranteed value based on its inverse function and can be traded for a [HedgeCoin(+)premium] market value. Furthermore LoanCoins, for the sake of liquidity, can be traded before their maturity date, this gives the investor the option to make a short term or longterm investment or adjust their investment plan when needed. After maturity a LoanCoin can be converted for its value in the original crypto-coin it was based on. Like its counterpart the LendCoin, the mature LoanCoin is destroyed when converted.
The Lend-n-Vest system is also intended to allow miners to profitably use their existing hardware. With the advent of ASICs many miners are finding that their expensive hardware is losing its usefulness for mining. The new hardware is pushing many miners out of the game and is threatening to create the all to familiar 'the rich get richer and the poor get poorer' situation. I think that this is something that most in the Bitcoin community wish to avoid. By arranging the mining procedure in such a way that restricts the three Lend-n-Vest coins so that miners with the most powerful hardware have to rely on those miners with older slower hardware will equalize the situation. There are many ways to do this and since value is a product of work done for coin generation it can be fair and equitable.
One such solution would be that ASIC miners generate the LoanCoins, FPGA miners generate LendCoins and ASIC/FPGA miners pay GPU miners to generate the HedgeCoin (the third and essential part of the Lend-n-Vest system.) By changing difficulty levels, including an automatic donation to lower level miners and a dynamic reward distribution based on hashing power distribution, miners with newer hardware will be encouraged to fund hardware upgrades for those with older hardware. This process can continue even if ASIC technology is replaced by something more advanced. For example; if the conformation speed of blocks found is dependent on support miners with GPUs then ASIC miners will want to increase their donation percentage so that GPU miners can upgrade to FPGAs.
By wisely adjusting difficulty levels over time, the general strength and hardware advancement will increase for all and leaving no one out if they wish to join in. Lets say that at some point in the future there is no one left on the generation network using GPUs. Then, someone somewhere gets onto the network and begins to mine with a GPU. This causes everyone's numbers drop enough that they want to fix the problem, donations go up, then the new miner upgrades (because the miner will have a much greater profit if they upgrade) and everything returns to normal.
Now, the LoanCoin and LendCoin work together in this manner, an investor purchases/mines LoanCoins, with the purchase of the LoanCoins are included an equal number of LendCoins and HedgeCoins. The investor finds a worthy cause and gives the LendCoins to the individuals. Yes that's right, gives away the LendCoins free of charge. You see, the profit is built into the Lend-n-Vest system. The investor is guaranteed to make their profit when their LoanCoins meet maturely!
The LendCoins are worth much less than their associated LoanCoin, in fact they are to be worth around 10-20% of the Lend-n-Vest coin package. Of the 10-20% only 5% or so percent of the original LoanCoin value will be available to the receiver but that 5% or so percent is generated value and does not deduct from the Lend-n-Vest systemcoin purchase amount! In addition most of the fees involved are paid by generated value. At this point in development it is assumed that very little or none of the original investment is lost or spent. This is the security of the investment! Most of the extra value is accomplished through a clever arrangement of merged mining. The purpose of the HedgeCoin is to preserve the investors capital against the fluctuation of crypto-currency markets as well as to provide general stability in the markets and provide an additional profit opportunity.
What this all boils down to is that the investment funds are being lent to the Lend-n-Vest system and the investor is paid an interest for their investment. The added bonus is that the investor is able to finance and provide support for causes that the investor cares about. It will be Philanthropy realized!
I really want to see this happen so lets get it done!
Thanks for your consideration!
Re: [Large Loan Request] Will verify ID and proof of ability to pay through John K.
I didn't read the whole thread so perhaps it was already mentioned ...
Some people will be interested in getting the loan back + (some Gh/s quota out of the equipment instead of the 15% you offer).
Nothing preventing such on arrangement, as I stated, I'm open to any reasonable terms.Some people will be interested in getting the loan back + (some Gh/s quota out of the equipment instead of the 15% you offer).
Re: [Large Loan Request] Will verify ID and proof of ability to pay through John K.
Something to consider is letting the lenders purchase the ASICs themselves and have them mine however much BTC + interest they would have obtained. After they're done they can send you the ASICs for free (you pay shipping).
But why would anyone do this, when they can buy the ASICs, and mine with them till they are far above the payback rate?
Re: [Large Loan Request] Will verify ID and proof of ability to pay through John K.
Might be a decent business to start leasing out mining equipment to the miners as a lot of loan requests seem to be from miners looking to buy the mining equipment outright.
What about rent-a-center for Mining equipment? We can get the uneducated in on Bitcoin!
Re: [Large Loan Request] Will verify ID and proof of ability to pay through John K.
Might be a decent business to start leasing out mining equipment to the miners as a lot of loan requests seem to be from miners looking to buy the mining equipment outright.
That's a good idea, my plan is similar. I will be using the funds to purchase the miner then I will sell shares for the miner. So I am not planing to repay the loan just on mining income, the payments will actually come from those who purchase shares for the mining hardware. I guess that would have been a very important thing to mention in the OP, 
.[PEDcoin] Easy way to transfer BTC into Entropia Dollars, Income From Trans Fees
Hi!
I was thinking about The Entropia Universe and how it can be difficult to transfer money into and out of The Entropia Universe if you don't have access to the regular methods such as credit cards and bank accounts. It can be impossible to do so for some. I think that I have a solution.
First of, I have to say that The Entropia Universe has a special meaning to me. It was while I was playing in-game that I notice in the shoutbox this comment... "Hey! I'm really interested in that Bitcoin idea!!" My reaction was (to myself) "Bitcoin??" It's not that I hadn't heard about Bitcoin, its that I had not given Bitcoin much attention and didn't know much about it.
My history with Bitcoin
About two years ago I received an inheritance of roughly $10,000. I didn't spend it right away, I sat on it while I considered what I was going to do with it. I knew I needed a new computer so that was definitely on the agenda but what I was most concerned about was how I could invest the rest. I am a geek to the core so I love all things tech. I began looking for a highly profitable tech venture that would not require a great deal of time on my part so that I could remain focused on getting my college degree. I had come across some information about bitcoin but didn't have the time to thoroughly investigate it. I mentioned to my wife what I was trying to find and she was (very) opposed, so I dropped it.
About one year later I was back at it, trying to find an online source of income which lead me to The Entropia Universe Project, you can put the rest together I'm sure...So this is the idea,
Its a simple concept:
- Create an alt-coin that is merged mined with bitcoin (must be easy to do so that it will be adopted more readily)
- Call this new alt-coin the PEDcoin (duh!
) - Make the PEDcoin destructible when traded for PED in-game
- Since PED has a set value of $10, it will not decrease or increase in value (For this project this is a GOOD thing!)
- In the Entropia Universe you can buy land and setup your own business, including banks (maybe ATMs would be possible?)
- Buy/rent such a space within the game and setup a bank/ATM
- Setup the bank/ATM to receive deposit credits and data from outside the game (PEDcoin wallet)
- Institute PEDcoin mining
- Miners sell their PEDcoins in a BTC exchange (integrate exchange into PEDcoin wallet?) or directly to customers for a small markup
- Link PEDcoin wallet addresses to Entropia Universe account
- Owner of PEDcoin goes to bank/ATM and withdraws PED ingame
- Bank/ATM owner receives small transaction fee
- Everything should be set up so that the wallet handles all exchanges and transactions
- Thats It!
Who wants to help develop this, I want to make it open source but we will have to setup a bank/atm within game to test. So there is income to be made by being the first to open such a bank/ATM.
Thanks Vlad2Vlad!
Unfortunately I'm the poor type, so I can't afford even a few ixcoins let alone much Bitcoin (maybe if a few people spend a little BTC on my links in my sig, especially coingen, the site isn't run the best but it really works!) I came into this about 1 yr to late. I was one of the first people in the US to own a GTX690 which will hash at ~350 MH/s. I wish I had known about Bitcoin when I first got my card because it would have been a fairly respectable amount of hashing power at the time.
I am sure that there are those who will try to stop Bitcoin, but like I said, they will ultimately fail. We just have to be willing to endure the dark ages when (if) they come and take action when needed.
Unfortunately I'm the poor type, so I can't afford even a few ixcoins let alone much Bitcoin (maybe if a few people spend a little BTC on my links in my sig, especially coingen, the site isn't run the best but it really works!) I came into this about 1 yr to late. I was one of the first people in the US to own a GTX690 which will hash at ~350 MH/s. I wish I had known about Bitcoin when I first got my card because it would have been a fairly respectable amount of hashing power at the time.
I am sure that there are those who will try to stop Bitcoin, but like I said, they will ultimately fail. We just have to be willing to endure the dark ages when (if) they come and take action when needed.
@vlad2vlad
I believe that you are very good at recognising patterns that most others miss, I also am good at this. It's our gift. One thing I have had to learn is that my reasoning may be flawless, but I don't (and can't) know all of the possible factors involved in any one instance so I cannot predict anything with 100% accuracy even if at times it may seem as though I had. The ego trap that I have learned to avoid is this; just because I was 70%, 80%, 90% or even 99.999-% correct, I must not forget that I was not 100% correct and that my accuracy will always vary. Not to mention that although either of us might be near 100% correct in the direction of travel, we cannot know what else may intersect the event within the same space/time and throw our prediction way off course. The other thing that I have learned is that things tend not to be quite as bad (or no way near as bad [or good]) as I thought they would be.
There are definitely forces at work that would like to thwart Bitcoin and they are powerful forces indeed. Yet, from my observation of human history and behavior, there is either a reaction or a response to perceived threats: 1. Reaction. Fight or flight - if we can't run we will fight, first; to discourage - Next, if that fails, to disable - Next, if that fails, to control - Next, if that fails, to kill- Next, if that fails, submit (if possible) 2. Respond: Consciously adapt to a new reality - We will try to; dominate - manipulate - leverage - restrict - bargain or otherwise use to our advantage
There is nothing that any government can effectively do to stop Bitcoin, there are too many ways to get around restrictions and regulations. That is not to say that a government cannot disrupt or retard the spread, usage or development of Btcoin, but ultimately anything they try will fail (so long as there are enough willing participants to keep Bitcoin alive.) So for the first possible action (the Reaction), they will eventually have to submit. Submission does not preclude the second possible action (Respond.) Two of possible responses (dominate and restrict) are nearly as unlikely as any of the Reactions. Manipulation is the most likely average response but that will have limited scope. The most likely responses will be the three remaining items, namely leverage, bargaining and using as an advantage. Governments will mostly be restricted to manipulation and bargaining. Now, for the real and greatest threat to Bitcoins decentralised network, we must consider the Rockefellers and corporate and financial industries of the world. Any number of them have the financial wherewithal to make all the money ever spent on Bitcoin mining hardware look like someones cookie jar savings in comparison. If the largest bank in the world (or one of the wealthiest people) thought that Bitcoin was encroaching into their profit generating engine they could easily out spend all of use and manufacture their own mining hardware at 1/3 the cost and make it impossible for anyone other than equally wealthy institutions to ever mine again. Plus these industries would dominate in transaction fees as well.
But even this can be a failing strategy. We, as in the Bitcoin community, can simply refuse to use the same blockchain that those large institutions use. The trick would be to do a better advertising campaign than any government or industry and to not allow regulators to scare use into excepting terms that are either not in our best interest or give the regulators an unjust amount of control.
I do not see that having companies register their Bitcoin dealings with a government being any bigger of a problem than it already is. I do have tremendous trepidations over any such institution demanding that the average individual do so as well.
Most of the negative things that could happen can be avoided or corrected at some point, as long as the majority of us remain true to the faith.
-JuenoMT
I believe that you are very good at recognising patterns that most others miss, I also am good at this. It's our gift. One thing I have had to learn is that my reasoning may be flawless, but I don't (and can't) know all of the possible factors involved in any one instance so I cannot predict anything with 100% accuracy even if at times it may seem as though I had. The ego trap that I have learned to avoid is this; just because I was 70%, 80%, 90% or even 99.999-% correct, I must not forget that I was not 100% correct and that my accuracy will always vary. Not to mention that although either of us might be near 100% correct in the direction of travel, we cannot know what else may intersect the event within the same space/time and throw our prediction way off course. The other thing that I have learned is that things tend not to be quite as bad (or no way near as bad [or good]) as I thought they would be.
There are definitely forces at work that would like to thwart Bitcoin and they are powerful forces indeed. Yet, from my observation of human history and behavior, there is either a reaction or a response to perceived threats: 1. Reaction. Fight or flight - if we can't run we will fight, first; to discourage - Next, if that fails, to disable - Next, if that fails, to control - Next, if that fails, to kill- Next, if that fails, submit (if possible) 2. Respond: Consciously adapt to a new reality - We will try to; dominate - manipulate - leverage - restrict - bargain or otherwise use to our advantage
There is nothing that any government can effectively do to stop Bitcoin, there are too many ways to get around restrictions and regulations. That is not to say that a government cannot disrupt or retard the spread, usage or development of Btcoin, but ultimately anything they try will fail (so long as there are enough willing participants to keep Bitcoin alive.) So for the first possible action (the Reaction), they will eventually have to submit. Submission does not preclude the second possible action (Respond.) Two of possible responses (dominate and restrict) are nearly as unlikely as any of the Reactions. Manipulation is the most likely average response but that will have limited scope. The most likely responses will be the three remaining items, namely leverage, bargaining and using as an advantage. Governments will mostly be restricted to manipulation and bargaining. Now, for the real and greatest threat to Bitcoins decentralised network, we must consider the Rockefellers and corporate and financial industries of the world. Any number of them have the financial wherewithal to make all the money ever spent on Bitcoin mining hardware look like someones cookie jar savings in comparison. If the largest bank in the world (or one of the wealthiest people) thought that Bitcoin was encroaching into their profit generating engine they could easily out spend all of use and manufacture their own mining hardware at 1/3 the cost and make it impossible for anyone other than equally wealthy institutions to ever mine again. Plus these industries would dominate in transaction fees as well.
But even this can be a failing strategy. We, as in the Bitcoin community, can simply refuse to use the same blockchain that those large institutions use. The trick would be to do a better advertising campaign than any government or industry and to not allow regulators to scare use into excepting terms that are either not in our best interest or give the regulators an unjust amount of control.
I do not see that having companies register their Bitcoin dealings with a government being any bigger of a problem than it already is. I do have tremendous trepidations over any such institution demanding that the average individual do so as well.
Most of the negative things that could happen can be avoided or corrected at some point, as long as the majority of us remain true to the faith.
-JuenoMT
Re: [Large Loan Request] Will verify ID and proof of ability to pay through John K.
And besides this, I offered more than just the mining gear and I don't see you mentioning that at all? Not even a 'well that sounds nice but' kind of statement. You offer absolutely no credit to me at all for at least 'trying to be fair.'
Sorry, I didn't notice that. The only thing that we really care about is a guarantee we will get our money back - that is collateral.
In any case, you get some respect for not immediately deleting the tough messages as you could in a "self moderated" thread.
Good luck with the loan.
And buy the way, I would never delete a message for just being critical, expressing distrust or even accusing me of a scam, so long as it is (mostly) respectful. I don't mind a tongue lashing, but I won't tolerate a bloody nose. Some think that anonymity is a license to verbally abuse others and I refuse to be their target (to the extent possible.)
For respect given, I return respect. So you have earned some respect from me as well for acknowledging my (presumed) integrity.
Cheers!
Re: [Large Loan Request] Will verify ID and proof of ability to pay through John K.
Considering the value of bitcoin has grown from 100$ to 500$ (actually, more, but let's just assume) within the last 6 months.
If I hold 100BTC, and expect a similar pattern, I earn 200000$
If I loan 100BTC to you for 6 months, I earn 7500$
We'll call you back.
Actually, as I stated. The loan will be paid back in BTC, not USD, as the funds will be used to purchase bitcoin mining rigs. Of course this means that the purpose is to mine bitcoins not USD. According to the terms that I stated the loan provider would not only get back their 100+ BTC, but also get an additional 15+ BTC. Using your figures that would not be $200,000 it would be $230,000 which is allot different than $7500. Your estimate on the value of BTC at the moment is close enough, but, if the value declines to, say, $250 and stays there for awhile you'll have to wait for another day to see your $200,000's. No one really knows how much bitcoin will be worth in the future, could be more, could be less. But I can more or less guarantee the amount it is worth right now, and buying mining hardware with the price of BTC being as high as it currently is would be like receiving a REALLY BIG COUPON towards the purchase of mining hardware. This makes investing in mining hardware a very profitable venture, but only at BTCs current exchange rate of ~$600/BTC or higher.If I hold 100BTC, and expect a similar pattern, I earn 200000$
If I loan 100BTC to you for 6 months, I earn 7500$
We'll call you back.
Now it is your bitcoin, so you do what you think is best for you, I could not fathom holding a grudge against someone for doing what they want to do with their own property.
So, enjoy your stash of bitcoin, maybe if you hold onto it for another 15yrs it might be worth a billion dollars! Lets hope!
Re: [Large Loan Request] Will verify ID and proof of ability to pay through John K.
The only way you could use the mining hardware as collateral would be if the hardware was kept in the lenders possession until the loan amount was recovered. Then the rigs could be sent to you. Would you be willing to do that?
It might be the 'best way' to use the mining hardware as collateral but it is not the only way. Another way would be that I am honest and could be trusted, but I understand that is an unreasonable thing to expect one to believe under these circumstances. Another way would be to have the hardware hosted by an individual that already has established trust with the community, which is something I already have arranged incase it is needed. A third independent party would be fine with me but the loan provider holding the hardware may not be anymore trustworthy than I (presumably) am. They could easily take payments for a while, then refuse to relinquish the miners and justify doing so by claiming that I didn't live up to my end of the deal. They come out of it looking like a victim while actually leaving me as the one who was taken advantage of. The potential scenarios are endless so why concentrate on only me as being the only on who could possibly be the nefarious one. If you want to protect people from abuse you need to consider both sides equally.
And besides this, I offered more than just the mining gear and I don't see you mentioning that at all? Not even a 'well that sounds nice but' kind of statement. You offer absolutely no credit to me at all for at least 'trying to be fair.'
Even if you are, the chances of recovering that purchase amount on mining hardware is very doubtful with today's rising difficulty. It would increase your chances of getting a loan if you were to ask for maybe 50% of the cost of the rig, and pay the other 50% yourself. Then the lender is more likely to get their investment back before they ship the rigs to you.
About the 50%, I would happily pay for half if I could but that is not the case so it is not an option. Although, I did mention something along the lines of what you stated, so I am way ahead of you on that. I already have an arrangement with someone and it is likely that at least 50% of the funds will come from other sources, the issue is that the order must be fulfilled in its entirety and not at 50% so 100% of the funds are required. And I don't necessarily agree with you on profitability, with the recent rise in the value of BTC the hardware is now cheaper (in BTC) and since we are calculating profits in BTC and not fiat money you would be mistaken. If the hardware arrives within the expected time frame then the mining equipment will make a profit in BTC. But this only remains valid if the purchase occurs while the value of BTC-to-dollar remains at its current level or higher.
Finally, it's not realistic to ask for 100% of a rig when the lender could just go out and purchase it himself.
It might not be realistic to expect to receive 100% of the funding to purchase the mining hardware, but there is nothing unrealistic about asking. There are many reasons that a lender may not want to purchase the hardware themselves including but not limited to the fact that some people don't know anything about mining per say and don't feel that they should attempt it themselves and some people are just interested in investing into other ventures and simply don't want to bother with the hardware mess. Yet another group would be that some individuals actually want to promote bitcoin and are willing to do all kinds of things to help others to be involved. There are plenty of others who have different reasons to lend rather than mine so I don't really understand why you would want to limit your perspective solely on those who would want to mine for themselves. People make investments in all kinds of ventures, this one is no different in that respect. And as I stated, I already have support from a group of people who are likely to cover a good portion of the cost.
Re: [Large Loan Request] Will verify ID and proof of ability to pay through John K.
I will be able to pay $400 a week as base pay
I'm not sure to understand.
Are you offering a life-time 400$/week after the 100BTC loan is repayed ? (in BTC?)
So if I loan 100 BTC to you today, the following happens:
- in 40 days, you begin paying 400$ per week
- in 6 months, you repay 100BTC
- in 6 months, I got my full 100BTC back and a life-time payment of 400$/week
Did I get this right?
Of course, I also considered the other options which included you repaying a loan of 100BTC at a rate of 400$/week, but that clearly does not fit in a 6 months timeframe.
Not mentionning holding the 100 BTC would be so much more profitable than lending to you, at the current growth rate.
By base pay I mean that the payments would not be less than $400 a week during the 6 months term which would start within the first 40 days after the initial 20 BTC was dispersed. I say within the next 40 days because the payments, besides the $400 base pay, could not start until the mining gear had arrived and was generating income. I offer the minimum $400 a week as a way to ensure that the loan provider will receive some form of reasonable payment even if the mining operation does not perform as expected. The loan would be repaid at 115% in total.
And I want to be sure that it is understood that the requested amount is 100+ BTC, not just 100 BTC. I would be happy to tell any serious loan provider the exact amount in a PM, I do have a reason for this which leads me to the next paragraph.
I should also note that I will only do business with a loan provider that has a solid reputation in the bitcoin community, because I believe that such an individual would have the proper incentive to keep confidential information confidential.
As far as holding BTC as opposed to loaning BTC, that is really a decision that a potential loan provider must make for themselves. If one wants to provide a loan then one should provide a loan, if one is not comfortable providing a loan then one should not do so. In either case, neither individual should have to explain why because it is their choice to make. Just to be clear though, completion of the repayment will be in BTC and not in dollars, so holding the BTC or not the value of what you have is preserved. As stated, the $400 a week base pay is just a way to ensure the loan provider has some security that they will receive at least some form of reasonable payment.
Maybe I should also state that not all of the funds will be spent right of the bat, some of the funds must remain available as insurance against any unknown issues arising such as a PSU failure.
Re: [Large Loan Request] Will verify ID and proof of ability to pay through John K.
Hello, what collateral are you offering to secure this loan?
I can offer the mining hardware itself as collateral. If your asking if I can secure a loan with funds that I already have then there would be no such security. If I had the funds I wouldn't need the loan.I do have an account with a certain company that generates a consistent amount of cash money everyday. Current earnings are less than enough to cover the promised payments but I can increase the revenue to more than enough to cover the indicated payment amount with a portion of the first 20 BTC (which is part of the reason I would need the 20 BTC seperately.). I would be willing to give John K. complete control over the account including the resetting of the password and email account to allow him to manage payments, although doing this would be a daily task on John K.'s part, so I am sure that it would increase the cost of the loan so terms may need to be changed to adjust.
Additionally, once the loan was completely funded and dispersed I would be more than willing to let John K. share all of the details with the loan provider so long as the loan provider was willing to reveal the same information and sign a confidentiality agreement, I would also agree to sign such an agreement for the loan provider as well.
Do you think that that would suffice?
[Large Loan Request] Will verify ID and proof of ability to pay through John K.
I wish to take out a large BTC loan (100+ BTC w/ $600/BTC@ BTC-e, would need to increase amount if BTCs value declines by much more than this)
I am willing to provide John K. with ID information and proof of ability to pay, you would need to pay John K. his fees and include that amount into the total loan.
This can be a group loan with escrow and payments through John K.
Purpose: To purchase mining gear, I have a reserve order for a substantial amount of hashing power but need to fund the purchase.
Term: 6 months
Payment: Will start in 40 days of issue date (assuming that mining gear is delivered on time), maybe sooner if needed. Once loan is funded and dispersed I will be able to pay $400 a week as base pay, maybe able to increase to $500 if needed. Can prove ability to do this through John K.
Interest: 15% of original amount
Confidentiality is required.
All but 20 BTC can be held in escrow until ability to purchase the mining gear is completely funded with the escrow handled by John K.
Partial funding of 50% may be acceptable if I am able to get others interested.
Perhaps this can be considered to be 2 loans, one for 20 BTC and the rest as the second.
Same terms on both except total base payment can not exceed $400-500 weekly. Willing to negotiate any reasonable requests.
This is a serious request with the real ability to repay as promised assuming the mining gear arrives within the expected time frame, payment can be made at a slower pace if mining gear does not arrive on time. Payment can be made even if mining gear never arrives, it just would take longer and would be at the $400-500 a week as this income is independent from mining and is from a different source of income which is provable.
Thank you for your consideration!
JuenoMt
I am willing to provide John K. with ID information and proof of ability to pay, you would need to pay John K. his fees and include that amount into the total loan.
This can be a group loan with escrow and payments through John K.
Purpose: To purchase mining gear, I have a reserve order for a substantial amount of hashing power but need to fund the purchase.
Term: 6 months
Payment: Will start in 40 days of issue date (assuming that mining gear is delivered on time), maybe sooner if needed. Once loan is funded and dispersed I will be able to pay $400 a week as base pay, maybe able to increase to $500 if needed. Can prove ability to do this through John K.
Interest: 15% of original amount
Confidentiality is required.
All but 20 BTC can be held in escrow until ability to purchase the mining gear is completely funded with the escrow handled by John K.
Partial funding of 50% may be acceptable if I am able to get others interested.
Perhaps this can be considered to be 2 loans, one for 20 BTC and the rest as the second.
Same terms on both except total base payment can not exceed $400-500 weekly. Willing to negotiate any reasonable requests.
This is a serious request with the real ability to repay as promised assuming the mining gear arrives within the expected time frame, payment can be made at a slower pace if mining gear does not arrive on time. Payment can be made even if mining gear never arrives, it just would take longer and would be at the $400-500 a week as this income is independent from mining and is from a different source of income which is provable.
Thank you for your consideration!
JuenoMt
I figured you wouldn't miss that little fact in my signature and you responded just as I predicted. You make to many assumptions, I never said I was against gambling. I was only commenting on your preference, I guess you missed the main point, which is something I also predicted. Your not so hard to read at all. Your reaction only proves my point, so I guess I should thank you for that. But I wont.
I have read many of your posts, and the way you talk to people is deplorable. That's really why I posted here. Someone needs to stand up to you and tell you how horrible your behavior is. The only thing you find important is your own opinion. Sorry to tell you this, but most people don't think you opinion is as important as you do. And just so that you know, I figure because you think it's OK to offer your opinion to others without being asked too and to be exceedingly rude about it, it must be OK for me as well. So you don't really have much room to complain. How does your own medicine taste? A little foul? And to think, my language is far tamer than yours and it still stings.
I have read many of your posts, and the way you talk to people is deplorable. That's really why I posted here. Someone needs to stand up to you and tell you how horrible your behavior is. The only thing you find important is your own opinion. Sorry to tell you this, but most people don't think you opinion is as important as you do. And just so that you know, I figure because you think it's OK to offer your opinion to others without being asked too and to be exceedingly rude about it, it must be OK for me as well. So you don't really have much room to complain. How does your own medicine taste? A little foul? And to think, my language is far tamer than yours and it still stings.
MPOE-PR is the clueless one. Now if she had said it would be better to give to charity, I'd have nothing to say. Considering who she works for and how she denigrates people, I guess you should expect her to favor lining the pockets of greedy gambling operators who take advantage of people who may have an addiction, over helping the poor.
Besides, her motives are highly suspect. This all smacks of an industry that is just trying to shutout newcomers and protect it's own territory.
I think its way past time to just ignore MPOE-PR and her senseless drivel.
Besides, her motives are highly suspect. This all smacks of an industry that is just trying to shutout newcomers and protect it's own territory.
I think its way past time to just ignore MPOE-PR and her senseless drivel.
They promise to double your initial investment as rapidly as possible!
Re: pyramining links, let's share them here (1 max post per page!!!)
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Re: [DISCUSS]Luke-Jr is standing for election to the board of the Bitcoin Foundation
What's happening in your head sounds very thrilling, and I can't wait for the whole book.
