@ BitSyncom sense your saying you haven't seen any results from BFL then this must mean you're prepared to show your results. If you do have any results to show. At this point you must have completed your production run and have begun burn in testing. Let's see a video of those units hashing. But we know you can't do that. At the same time you are looking for such proof from BFL.

BitSyncom don't blame 'bad luck' if you are unable to meet your stated shipment date because we know that it's just bad management from university students.

Thanks for the fish.

Question:

If Avalon sold you a product claiming it produced a hash rate of 60GH for $1300 and only delivered 50GH would you expect a proportional amount refunded? For example, if the delivered Avalon product only produced 30GH and you paid $1300 would you still be happy with your purchase price or would you demand a 50% refund?

What if the power requirements increased 50%? Under that circumstance would it be acceptable to you if Avalon offered no refund?

How far does Avalon have to miss their stated performance before you request a full refund?

Of course Kaerf. The Avalon development team did their due diligence by creating and testing a prototype and knew all along of the problems but didn't inform the community because of fears customers would cancel their orders. Instead, if memory servers me correctly, they told the community they have increased the hashing rate.

I guess that 10+ years of ASIC experience served them well (sarcasm). Either that or the lies are piling up and biting them where the good lord split them. Now you know why Avalon avoided clarifying their claims of 10+ years ASIC experience made on their website.

Tips to Avalon customers: Be sure to replace the batteries in your smoke detectors before falling asleep with a plugged in Avalon product.

I could be wrong, but I think your only allowed to upgrade one unit. Just ignore Frizz23 he has an unhealthy ass fixation. I was told he faps to 'Two Girls and a Cup'.

@ Greyhawk, who is Art?

Again I have been proven right. Creativex, run away, run away. That is something you and Tom have in common Creativex. But I guess when you use logic against someone who has no logic what else can you expect from them but to run away and find a hiding place under an ignore button. I suppose now Creativex you have proven your self the coward you claimed I was.

Greyhawk has one of the best postings ever to be quoted:

@ Creativex, I see your point. Calling Tom's wife 'lovely' is indeed in poor taste. What term would you suggest Creativex, sow? Tom putting me in my place, ha. Creativex, you can't show a single time let alone multiple times that Tom has ever 'put me in my place'. Go ahead and try but be sure to include the full context so one can't question if your intent is to deceive.

Creativex, do you know what a 'Freudian slip' is? So using your logic you are expecting your anonymity to protect you. Fuq'n hypocrite. The only person mentioned in this conversation proven to be a coward is Tom. When tough questions began to be ask of Tom he runs away and starts his own forum where he deletes tough question being asked of him. When Tom's ASIC venture blows up in his face he avoids the forums only logging on to propagandize for Avalon so the deal in the works between Tom and Avalon doesn't fall apart. When Tom can't handle a situation Tom get someone else to do his dirty work like Dave or the Avalon team. So if Tom's history is prologue, I could expect Tom would have his wife sit on me squashing me to death while he ran away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh8LPA6rMjA

Creativex, if you know how I would act then you know my video posting was humor so your just creating drama for the popcorn affect.

So after waiting days for the Avalon team to clarify the claims they made of having 10+ years experience producing ASICs they have failed to address the issue I have raised. I said they would avoid the issue of experience and they have done just that. The Avalon team's silence is thunderous. After all if they tell the community the truth after lying the community would rip them a new orifice and kill their chance of a successful second round of pre-orders. But after Tom's debacle it is unlikely that many would be willing to go the pre-oreder route again when purchasing an ASIC product.

So let's approach the question of Avalon's experience from a different direction. It has been reported that Avalon bought something like 1000 ASIC chips from Tom, sight unseen and untested. The use of Tom's ASIC would require a new PCB, chassis and power supply, bASICally a completely new product. This being true even though Avalon was going to be first to market. A thinking person can see my next question before it is even asked.

If the Avalon team is so skilled in manufacturing an ASIC product why don't they have the confidence in their own product? Why does the Avalon development team believe an untested, still in development ASIC is a better product then the one they have produced?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_EnrVf9u8s

It is becoming increasingly unlikely that Avalon's production run will exceed 300 units. I personally believe that there is a greater than 80% chance that Avalon will become the next failed Bitcion ASIC producer.

The Politically Correct Police addicts said no humor in a drama thread. I guess some people just can't laugh at others who for fun enter a contest and intentionally make a fool of them self so others can laugh. Jerry Louis where have you gone? I'm sure the PC police are going to claim that a thyroid problem diminishes the effectiveness of their funny bone functionality.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AllhU-qRRbs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPqcTFm2ID8

It's humor. The 'tehehe' should have been your first clue that it was humor. It's not like I am comparing Tom's family photo with a photo of Hitler which I'm sure would offend millions of Jewish people.

So after a bit of searching I found this video of Tom's lovely wife..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTwWp-0SfVw&list=FLqfXuai2TnWBnyqLZBQXuqQ

tehehe

I am not the first to raise this question but I still would like to ask it. I checked www.avalon-asics.com to see what the 'count down clock' said. At the time I checked it was a little over 6 days. So lets look a little closer. If we have 1 day for assembly, how long will it be in transit from the assemblers to the Avalon shipping facilities? If the assemblers are close then they could pick up the assembled product. Otherwise it will take 1 to 3 days, maybe longer, to ship to Avalon for final assembly and shipment to the customer. Now how long will the product burn in be, 24 hours?

So that leaves virtually no time for quality control testing not to mention SRRC certification but Chinese companies don't seam to comply with their own countries laws when shipping outside their boarders. It appears to me that the Avalon development team is relaying solely on computer simulations of their product to be 100% accurate. Computer simulations are never wrong, right? With only days to do full quality control testing of the hardware and software purchasers of Avalon's products can expect a high failure rate and a large warranty return rate. Not to mention long shipping delays from country to country and lack of replacement parts to fix warranty issues. At which time you will not be eligible for a refund and stuck with an inferior product. But what can I say, China is home to the inferior product.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94HTIueOuDQ

On Avalon's website they claim to have 10+ years ASIC experience. It's now time for Avalon to tell their customers and the community which Avalon employees have ASIC experience and how much each Avalon employee is claimed to have. But I suspect that full disclosure of claims made on their website will be an issue that will be avoided. I surmise they will claim that a Master's Degree is equivalent to 6 years experience. Or maybe if it takes someone 10 years to complete a 6 year program that could be counter as 10 years experience. Can one really claim taking a university class as experience? Not in my book and not on a job application. Could it be that someone is drinking their own Jonestown Kool Aid?

With less than a week to the proclaimed shipment date there is no reason not to show pictures of a PCB or chassis as Avalon's only competitor has done. Unless they don't have a PCB or chassis to show, which is entirely plausible.

Too bad that China's target is to be first (inferiority complex?), rather than America's where quality is job 1.

Now queuing 300 test dummies.


Edit below made by anonymous admin: note other edits might have been made by cowardly anonymous admins;
Now queuing 300 test dummies, a sacrifice to appease the gods I've angered by continuing to troll this thread... maybe they won't edit the hell out of this post as they promised to do.

About Bryan Micon and his recent Youtube video at CES, how stupid can one person get?

So Bryan created a counterfeit CES credentials most likely using a computer. Guess what, that is computer fraud. In many states stealing something of value greater then $50 is a felony. Sense entering a paid event with out paying is theft and trespassing, and trespassing while in the commission of a felony, that is felony trespassing. Bryan could be looking at a multi-year jail term all because he wanted to troll Josh and BFL. That's what I call a committed troll.

If Bryan thinks that his gambling/poker website will be legal it shows just how ignorant of the law he is. SecondLife was forced by the US government to stop all in game gambling activities or be shutdown. SecondLife Lindens are no different then Bitcions in the aspect of functioning as a monetary instrument. It seams to me like Bryan has a desire to break any law to get what ever he wants. Now there is someone you can trust and hold up as a beacon of light, if you are like minded.

And how stupid does one have to be to post their felonious exploits online to seek glory? Ask Bryan for the answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaFcSU6fLwo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATHhP2lPrZc


@ MPOE-PR, sense BFL's CEO's parole/probation officer knows about his activities from multiple sources, how come his parole officer hasn't violated his parole and sent him back to jail? Could it be because there is no violation of parole? MPOE-PR simple logic doesn't seam to be your strong suit, right?

@ MichaelBliss

I can only speak to my understand of US law and I haven't fully researched what I'm about to speak of, further it is not meant to be legal advice.

My understanding is there are consumer protection laws that require a product purchased, on a website within the US, to be shipped within a maximum of 60 days. These consumer protection laws at the least have civil sanctions and at the most criminal penalties. So when a refund is issues the most you can lose is the difference in currency value conversion of 60 days from date of purchase. It can be argued, maybe unsuccessfully, if additional purchases were made that the date for which the clock begins starts at the date of the first purchase. So at a maximum the amount refunded must be calculated at 60 days from purchase, if not shipped within 60 days, and not longer. If any funds are transferred via an electronic method (Bitcion or bank wire transfers) that are not in accordance with the 60 days from purchase calculation it would constitute wire fraud. If the funds are transferred not in accordance with the 60 days from purchase calculation via a mail system (USPS, Fedex, UPS, DHL) using a monetary instrument it would constitute mail fraud.

It is also my understanding that if an electronic device is transferred via a mail system, that requires FCC regulation compliance and the device is not in compliance with regulations, to a US customer it would constitute mail fraud. As I have stated before I am unaware that Tom has any type of incorporation that would protect himself or his employees from civil and criminal penalties.

Is Tom going to pay for Dave's criminal defense attorney and how, with your preorder funds? Is Dave willing to go to jail because Tom directed Dave to engage in felonious activity? Are the new owners going to assume the financial liability for Dave's criminal defense? Will Dave sue Tom or his company for liability if a criminal prosecution occurs? Or will the new owners just buy the intellectual property from Tom?

Dave, you might want to seek a free consultation with a criminal defense attorney. It is better to be safe than sorry. Although the damage might have already been done but you can mitigate further damage by terminating your employment with Tom.

If you want to exact your pound of flesh, one might start by filling criminal activity reports with the district attorney's office in the county where Tom resides, the New York Attorney General's office, the FBI, the FCC, the Mail Inspector General's office and your local law enforcement agencies.

Ignorance of the law is not an accepted legal defense.

I said back in November that I thought Tom's company would be the first Bitcion hardware manufacture to go bankrupt, and now my words are appearing to be coming true, but not yet. So let us take a closer look and maybe ask a few questions. With Toms' 5 figure monthly salary, rent on office/production space at about $1500 per month, $100k+ development costs, a refund request rate at about 12 to every 1 that is willing to wait it out and a profit margin in the neighborhood of 500% per unit sold, how long before total bankruptcy ensues?

As far as I know Tom never setup an LLC, Inc. or other type of incorporation. This makes Tom personally liable financially and legally for all debts and felonious activities. I advised Tom in November to seek legal counsel. My guess is right about now he wish he had taken my advice. But no, he was too smug and thought I was just trolling him instead of trying to help him.

I made a thread and several posting trying to raise the level of scepticism about Tom and his offering because I saw numerous problems. My approach was to deal with the issues I saw one at a time but the community and moderators attacked me and removed my postings. The moderators were just too chummy with Tom to allow my questioning of Tom to occur. When I challenged Tom he locked his thread within days and ran away. And now when things get tough for him again, he runs away and dumps responsibility on another to pick up the pieces of his failed life endeavours. Just like when I called him out on the FCC issue he said something like, "but the other do it too", bumping responsibility on others. So I decided to just let the community go down with the ship without providing a life preserver. It leads me to wonder how many more enforcement agencies might begin an investigation into Toms' activities.

I can image how stupid Toms' 'shills' are feeling right about now. I know if I were a customer of Toms' I would be demanding a refund as soon as possible. I doubt that all of Toms' customers will be getting their money back. My advice to those that still wish to buy a product from Tom would be get your refund to be safe and secure, and when the mystery new asian company (if this isn't a continuing con) starts producing an ASIC product and proves it as functional and real, then reorder.

I do believe that Tom tried to produce an ASIC product. I also believe that fairly soon he realized he couldn't so be began to con people into thinking that all was okay because it was the only solution he knew. He lied to himself, he lied to the community and most importantly he lied to his customers. And because if this Tom does deserve the SCAMMER tag.

One thought I had but wasn't going to bring up was suicide, but sense Tom did I will. Tom on irc spoke about cutting his wrists open. Is Tom going to be the first person to commit suicide because of Bitcoin? It is a grim thought but one that has to be asked. Those that attempt suicide often speak of it before attempting it. But maybe this is just a ploy to get attention, to get people to feel sorry for the poor bastard, and not to call him a scammer.

Anyone want to place odds on how long it will be before Tom gets sued or possibly jailed?

@ PuertoLibre, if you know where the ignore button is why haven't you ignored the BFL representatives? Why can't you accept and act on your own advice? PuertoLibre, are you lying to your self about your own advice?


@ PuertoLibre, are you a qualitfied medical perfessional that is capible of sensing at a distance a person's blood pressure without the use of a sphygmomanometer?

So let me get this correct PuertoLibre. You complain that some one should use the ignore button but you wont do the same. You complain that some one is making a medical judgement and then you make a medical judgement.

I think it's more than safe to call you a hypocrite PuertoLibre. PuertoLibre, why don't you act in a manor as you advocate others to do?

“Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it.”  ― Mahatma Gandhi

@ Crypt_Current, if you overdose can I get your BFL hardware, if BFL doesn't cancel your order?

+1 crazyates
+1 SLok

Some people like elux think they are entitled to what ever they ask for. No matter how much information you provide them they will come back with another demand for more information.

This is how you deal with people like Elux:

Elux, what is your real name? What is your address? What is your phone number? Where do you work? What is your position at your place of employment? What educational degrees, if any, do you have? What is the license plate number of your car? What is your social security number? What is your mother's maiden name? What is your father's name? What are the birth dates of your parents? Where do you bank at? Will you provide a blood and urine samples? Are you willing to take a polygraph test?

And... That will do for a start.

Elux, if your unwilling to answer these questions then we know your unwilling to hold yourself to the standards you hold other to.

I feel another ignore coming.......

@ Bogart, your right. When "time is money in this game" it makes much more logical sense to spend tens of thousands of dollars for that extra 0.0009% improvement. Genius!! I think we have a Nobel Laureate candidate for economics here in Bogart.

Damage? Damage to what, BFL reputation? Half or more of the Bitcointalk community believes BFL is a scam.

BFL show's off pictures of PBC with 8 ASIC chips. Tom has his design firm redesign his ASIC offering to now have 8 ASIC chips. Monkey see, monkey do.

Do you know how magic works? It's all about misdirection.