it's trust. while i agree eth is one of the ONLY alts that has an active community, development and a presence that isn't just fake marketing; bitcoin has trust. it's the longest chain in crypto. it's what the whole community has been developed around. the "tech" isn't the issue with btc, it's the security. currently bitcoin has the best security of ANY crypto. as for the miners controlling ? yes and no. should a group ever try a 51% attack it can be quickly addressed by the devs after the first double spend. andreas did a talk on this very subject recently. china has a dominance in mining mostly because of the cheap energy in the rainy seasons. BTC

have been using a ledger for 2 years. also a good time to bring up the fact "not your keys, not your coins"

real world use cases would be #1

in fact this one is so large as to trump all the other by a large margin

lightning development is progressing very well and hopefully will be in use within the next 2-3 years on a large scale where you can buy all kinds of random things. use it on amazon, ebay etc. low cost true digital cash. the other thing is an easy use case. ideally banks would be able to function like exchanges. if you have $5000 in your checking a simple button click could convert xx dollars to btc and from there you could send it on chain or via lightning to the destination.  companies like western union have no place even existing if the world actually realized how bitcoin worked...however, values probably need to stabilize and that would mean an end to these 80+ % boom and bust cycles we keep having. maybe we can get some stability on the next run higher?

other things i would like to see in no real order

2. the death of bcash.
3. better custody solutions for the average person.
4. bad actors / scammers pushed from the space, hunted down etc
5. an established solution with gov regulators that will allow the industry to push aside worries about intervention

it's a catalyst. do we "need" it? no, would it ramp up the price? almost certainly.

there is a lot of fear we are going to leg down and test 3200-3700 out there right now. it seems unwarranted since 2018 is not 2014 or anywhere close to it fundamentally

an etf approval would likely stop that thought process dead in its tracks. personally i think the question on an etf is "when" not "if"

i think it's more of the looming question right now. will bitcoin hold the 5300-5700 support or will it leg down to 3200-3700. some people look at 2014 and see the market did a retrace to before marcus and wiley but 2018 is a different situation. mt gox did not blow up this year. we did not have bots responsible for the entire run. this time it was retail mania. expecting the downside to play out exactly the same seems very foolish

the question i have with eos is literally....what will it do? like what daily function?

bitcoin, litecoin, bitcash, ether. they all have uses. they have uses you can measure today without hype.

boom. this is it

x2

spend more on the 1200w psu. a 1000w is pushing it for 6 580s and that's even undervolted. the hx1200 or hx1200i are great choices from corsair.

there are many good gaming boards which support 6 gpus and you can dual use them for gaming, the only issue in your case is the 580 is a weak gaming card. i guess you could stay at 1080p

you can get 6gpu rig racks on amazon for 59 or so. it's easier than building your own

make sure you check that whatever board you get really can support 6 gpus. not all can. 6*150w = 900w + 65w system or 130w or so if you dual mine on the cpu means you have a 1030w draw or about 960w if you don't use the cpu to mine

that's max load on a 1200w psu and too much for a 1000

on a 1200w psu you want to see no more than 1000w on your kill a watt at the wall when you test

x2

and "what about the future" arguments are also pretty invalid. as computing power gets stronger so will the network hashrate.

the only way bitcoin is dying is if people stop being interested in it, using it, mining etc.

no, 2014 was worse. in 2014 we had an 80% drawdown. so far we have only hit 70% off the 2017 high

however. 2014 was the worst year in bitcoin history. mt gox blew up. REAL fud was everywhere.

neutral. range bound. i think 6k was likely the low and if it's re tested one of two situations will happen. a fake out to 5500 or so that gets everyone short and turns on a dime or a 2014 repeat situation where were are at btc 4k around christmas. i do not find evidence to support the 2014 repeat. the 2017 run was much smaller at 2000% and we did not have the only major exchange blow up like they did back then.

6 to 11.7k is my guess. people need to be shook out. i'm digging the increase in profit mining vs the low of this year. fewer people selling hashing power or mining outright. i would like to see it stay a bit bearish for a time. let people build up a supply for a year or so before the uptrend begins again. market needs to consolidate. ideally the lightning network gets ironed out before 2020. that could start a MAJOR rally which would put 50-100k in the cards especially when you consider the halving

i'll just quote cnbc

"The most popular cryptocurrency is bitcoin, with an estimated 5 percent of Americans owning some. The share of Americans who own several other well-known digital coins underscores how far these currencies have to go: Less than 2 percent of Americans own Ethereum and less than 1 percent own Ripple"

5% may be a bit high as it could be "have you ever owned bitcoin" rather than "do you own" the 2% eth is a tell on that

you have, best case scenario here 5 out of 100 people having ever touched it and you feel everyone is in?

seriously, quit just talking to people in the crypto space. this is probably the most undiscovered asset on the planet that is slowly growing. you don't even have institutions in the actual coins yet. futures just began 6 months ago

your post is literally like "everyone knows about oil. why it won't go higher" written in 1875

why we won't see 20k this year there is a really good argument for. why we won't ever see 20k again there is only one argument for and that is you believe it is going to zero.

when did you last study litecoin? that was true a year ago but not true today

litecoin has made faster progress than practically any other altcoin in adoption and implementation to the consumer. they have multiple deals in the works for debit card processing and atomic swaps. LTC also will be able to use the lightning network and has the advantage of being known as bitcoin lite since it literally is exactly that.

neo has practically no adoption outside of the crypto space

zcash is interesting and i could see having a very bright future. it's growth in the past year is noteworthy. part of that i suspect is due to the easy of GPU mining which brings and more people to it. if they allow that z9 from bitmain to mine it, well, it's hard to say how that will go

i'm also not sure if everyone grasps what litecoin being the next bitcoin really means. litecoin in theory should be worth roughly 25% of bitcoin if it receives the same level of adoption. another next step should be trading pairs. right now BTC is the world reserve currency of crypto and ETH is hot on it's heels. for litecoin to take the #3 spot which i personally could see happening it needs to accomplish all of these things.

there is a reasonable argument for it being different. the crypto recession of 2014 lasted about 18 months before the uptrend clearly resumed. it also took like a year to find the bottom.

this time the fall was MUCH faster and we not only have a more mature market, we simply have more people invested and adoption is far more widespread. back then mt gox was the main exchange. it would be similar to coinbase and gemini both blowing up today at the same time. nothing remotely close to that happened in 2017. we should know within the next 3-4 months if 6k was the bottom and if it was we #1 won't break it and #2 will likely begin an uptrend within 6 months if history is any example.

the mood as you point out is also quite bearish which is also quite often found at bottoms. people throw in the towel with despair and run. this is more times than not a good time to cost average in

depends on the country. it's not a far stretch to develop an app that allows point and click sales. bitcoin can be decimalized to infinity even if the value were to go to 1 million usd. you simply have .000000001 btc to pay for said item.

bitcoin is also what the us dollar is to forex markets. it's the reserve currency. if you sell an alt coin on binance. what do they pay you in? that's right, bitcoin. 

the major western economies are in a bit of a bind right now because they have rising inflation which is forcing rates higher. if this continues growth will slow. money will leave stocks and a good deal of it will find its way to crypto

if the fed goes the other way and cuts interest rates to promote growth inflation will rise, the us dollar will weaken and bitcoin again is in the spotlight the same way it was when it was created in 2009 after that financial crisis

one us dollar today has the purchasing power of roughly 9 cents in 1950 but that trend has accelerated since 2000

poor people will get hit the worst in either of these scenarios. bitcoin becomes an obvious hedge

oh there is no possible way we are returning to 2014 prices unless it's going to zero. when i said 2014 prices i was referring to peak to trough percentage decline. in 2013 we made a 1000 usd high and fell to a 220usd low. it's worth noting 2013 began at 20usd so even the lowest low was 11x higher than the start of that year. that equaled an 80% decline which would be BTC $4000 usd today which i personally don't think is likely because of the situation i have already mentioned. mostly. 2017 was no where near as bad as 2013 and neither was the price gain. 2013 over doubled the gain we saw in 2017 as measured by percentage. i cautiously think the 6k low we already have made is the actual low which is a 70% retrace from the 19,500 high we had in dec-2017. i find no evidence in the recorded history of crypto to argue an 80% matching decline would be likely besides the chart repeating itself. to me that's 5-10% odds of a direct 2014 repeat. it does however explain why some people speak of 4k btc as if it is going to happen. they are purely technical analysts who expect the chart to always repeat itself.....they are also wrong quite a lot

same here

even if my original question does play out.....i'm anything but long term bearish. i see it more as an opportunity.

there is substantial evidence 2013 was absolutely manipulated and 2017 also was but the extent is much harder to measure with the bitfinex/tether fiasco.

the one thing that seems certain is larger players want to accumulate as many coins as possible and the reason why is blatantly obvious. there are only so many left and the total supply is likely to only be around 16m with so many having been lost over time. if satoshi was indeed Hal which is a very likely scenario that treasure trove is likely also lost, you know, the huge stash of coins that never moved.. the strong hands want to control the majority because at that point the price can be inflated to quite large sums allowing them to trickle sell a few coins at a time into the strength and having more money than any person in recorded history ever has.

from a tech analyst point of view that's almost right on. the lower channel is about 7700usd though not 8k exactly. a drop on volume through 7700 would be seen as bearish with a first major target around 7k. people would then be watching to see if support holds or we drift or we break. as long as the price doesn't get close to 6k it's not  a major concern. if it does, especially on volume this being the 3rd visit of 6k makes penetration likely. under that who knows? 4k would be the 2014 correction numbers which honestly seems a bit ridiculous. this market isn't nearly as bad and 2017 didn't have nearly the run up 2013 did

on the bull side we ideally want to see something like a double bottom trace out and move up to 8200-8400 and from that point have a hard move that goes through 8900 which is the 100 day moving average, a move through 8600 which is the near term resistance almost guarantees 8900-9000. the 200 currently is at 10,200 but it falls everyday we are under it. if this sideways situation traces out for another 60 days it will be much easier to get on the right side of it for a run at 10

lastly. tinfoil hat time....which might not be that heavy of tinfoil. next gen miners are being developed. we all know bitmain is a major and i mean MAJOR player. it's in their interest to keep the price reasonable which keeps people away and the difficulty from rising too quickly. do i need to review the difficulty increase in the 2nd half of 2017? once they have mined a lot and sold a lot of the new miners price can be inflated which not only raises the cost of the miners but starts drawing people in. more and more people come in buying more and more coins and miners. bitmain and the other major players can sell into this strength AND sell their products for higher prices. this cycle can continue as long as they have the funds to manipulate price. it gets even more likely if you envision a syndicate or cartel of major players. remember....unregulated market here

1. did that mt gox attorney seriously unload on an exchange? i mean...why? i'm relatively new but do have a background in securities and there is NO WAY i would ever unload hard if i was given thousands of bitcoins. if i do all the damn bots will follow me into the ground. oh no, especially considering he has quite a few more left. call the winklevoss twins. hell call anyone on the crypto top 10 list and make a deal OTC. even if you give them 10 points off spot it's a better deal than you will get on an exchange when all the bots start going to town on the technical pattern you single handedly create. the media says he has like 160,000 coins left. if 8k coins made this kind of impact it will take him years to unload at that rate. hell even a firesale at 30 points off spot solves his problem, pays all the creditors and a lot is left over. if that guy walked into consensus and said BTC for sale. 30% off gdax if you buy 50 million usd or more i bet quite a few hands would go up. seriously, what is he thinking ?

2. if 2014 does play out the majority of the fall is already over, next is the drift and if the 80% 2014 correction were to ring true again 4k would be the target with  4500-5000 being more likely as everyone would buy as we approach that number. a lot of BTC traders are very technically superstitious. like i have never met a group who puts more weight in elliot waves and fibs than crypto traders.

3. i'm mixed on the 10k comment you made. here's why. the 200sma. the longer we consolidate the easier it is to get on the right side of that. this market also has a thing for 3s. anyone else notice this in the patterns? we have had 2 failed 10k attempts in current history. if 7700 holds right now and we get a breakout a push through 10k has a strong possibility. last time the 200SMA was right at 10k and we bounced off both. if the next rally is a few weeks to a month out and we get on the right side of it one of two major hurdles is already out of the way. clearing 10 however is only a major accomplishment if it holds as support. if we run to 11,700 and get turned around which is highly likely on attempt one everyone will be watching to see if 10k holds or if we run back down under it to a support level in the 8s or 9s

mmm

yeah...i'm with you on that