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Re: [WTS] 26 BTC share in Coinhoarder's Avalon batch #3 group buy
I bid 1@ 1.9 BTC
This is an auction. You can't split an auction lot and bid. You can withdraw your bid or bid on the 26 shares.
Sam.
Re: [WTS] 26 BTC share in Coinhoarder's Avalon batch #3 group buy
How much were shares originally, how many shares were issued?
1BTC per share. 7x 4 module units were purchased in total so around 715 shares or about 3.6%. Total hashing power is around 600Gh/s. Bitsyncom state they'll start shipping batch 3 in 10 days time. We have a private forum at http://yourcoins.org/forums . Coinhoarder will host the hardware and administer dividends.
Cheers,
Sam.
[WTS] 26 BTC share in Coinhoarder's Avalon batch #3 group buy
Original GroupBuy thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=157930.0
Auction is for 26 BTC worth of shares in CoinHoarder's avalon group buy.
Bidding starts at 1.9 BTC per share. Only bid in 0.1 BTC increments or greater. Please bid in terms of BTC per share e.g. 1.9 (not 28.5).
Bidding ends on Sunday 28th April 2013 midnight UTC. I will PM winner with details.
Good luck.
Auction is for 26 BTC worth of shares in CoinHoarder's avalon group buy.
Bidding starts at 1.9 BTC per share. Only bid in 0.1 BTC increments or greater. Please bid in terms of BTC per share e.g. 1.9 (not 28.5).
Bidding ends on Sunday 28th April 2013 midnight UTC. I will PM winner with details.
Good luck.
Re: [Group Buy] Avalon ASIC Batch 3 [CLOSED- Seven 4 module Avalons ordered]
Well, there seems to be enough opposition to going on a security exchange that I am willing to scrap that idea.
ATTENTION INVESTORS:
First, I have taken some mBTC off of my ownership interest to make our numbers and percentages add up to 100% ownership of the seven Avalons.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7b7omfd7hrbk9gs/Ownership%20Percentages%20%26%20Profit%20Projections.xls
Second, everyone owns a percentage of ALL Avalon's that the group has ordered. Splitting up interest to each 7 Avalon's and making 7 different payments each month would be an accounting nightmare for me. Although there may be some downside to this for the very first investors, as others have mentioned, there are also advantages to owning a percentage in all of the Avalon's. For instance, if I ever have any technical problems with one of the Avalon's, at least you are still making BTC with the other six.
Third, I am willing to commit to a temporary solution to allow the buying and selling of ownership interest at this time. I will allow you guys to transfer/sell/buy shares to whomever you want... people in the group or out of the group, either one. I don't feel like it is fair to say you MUST sell your shares to people already in the group... if someone is offering you 3x what someone in the group will, by all means.. sell your shares to the highest bidder. I have the right to suspend the selling and buying of ownership interests at any time, as this was never covered in the original investment offer, I am only trying to accommodate you guys.
Ya'll must take care of all negotiating and transactions yourselves. To avoid people blaming me for transaction errors, all sales of ownership interest MUST be posted as a reply in this thread. The post to inform the group that you have sold your shares should be similar to the following format: I sold 1 BTC of my interest to who would like to receive his dividends at . The amount of shares you're selling must be in BTC.
Ownership transactions are non reversible, so make sure you get paid first. I highly recommend you change your password on the forums to something secure, and something that you don't use on any other sites. I will not be held responsible for your account getting hacked and someone selling your shares to themselves.
I hope this temporary solution is OK for most of you, thanks,
Ch
ATTENTION INVESTORS:
First, I have taken some mBTC off of my ownership interest to make our numbers and percentages add up to 100% ownership of the seven Avalons.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7b7omfd7hrbk9gs/Ownership%20Percentages%20%26%20Profit%20Projections.xls
Second, everyone owns a percentage of ALL Avalon's that the group has ordered. Splitting up interest to each 7 Avalon's and making 7 different payments each month would be an accounting nightmare for me. Although there may be some downside to this for the very first investors, as others have mentioned, there are also advantages to owning a percentage in all of the Avalon's. For instance, if I ever have any technical problems with one of the Avalon's, at least you are still making BTC with the other six.
Third, I am willing to commit to a temporary solution to allow the buying and selling of ownership interest at this time. I will allow you guys to transfer/sell/buy shares to whomever you want... people in the group or out of the group, either one. I don't feel like it is fair to say you MUST sell your shares to people already in the group... if someone is offering you 3x what someone in the group will, by all means.. sell your shares to the highest bidder. I have the right to suspend the selling and buying of ownership interests at any time, as this was never covered in the original investment offer, I am only trying to accommodate you guys.
Ya'll must take care of all negotiating and transactions yourselves. To avoid people blaming me for transaction errors, all sales of ownership interest MUST be posted as a reply in this thread. The post to inform the group that you have sold your shares should be similar to the following format: I sold 1 BTC of my interest to who would like to receive his dividends at . The amount of shares you're selling must be in BTC.
Ownership transactions are non reversible, so make sure you get paid first. I highly recommend you change your password on the forums to something secure, and something that you don't use on any other sites. I will not be held responsible for your account getting hacked and someone selling your shares to themselves.
I hope this temporary solution is OK for most of you, thanks,
Ch
Regarding point 3; Too complicated, error prone, slow, etc. Isn't this the reason we're developing the bitcoin economy? This sort of thing can be completely automated (for the admin end) in bitcoin. For each transfer of share, the seller uses his private key to sign a text block with the buyers bitcoin address and email, handle, whatever. The block is easily authenticated against the sellers address and the database of shareholders updated. When CH wants to run a dividend transaction, he uses a script to format the shareholder table into a bitcoin transcation and calculates the dividends. It doesn't need to be flash. I could write the form/updater script in PHP but there's probably more capable PHP or perl developers here that could do a better job than me, and deliver quickly.
Sam.
Quote
Core voltage is 1.2V, not 120V.
Right but I did not state the core voltage was 120V. The stated power consumption of an Avalon is 620w @ 120v which is what I used in my estimate. If each chip does indeed use 1.5A each then an Avalon would use more than 43kW so that can't be right. If the core voltage is 1.2V then each chip uses ~24mW by my estimates.
Power consumption = amps * volts. Avalon's power consumption at the wall, through the PSU, is ~620w @ 120v, so 5.16 amps @ 120v. The PSU converts that down to +12vdc to feed each of the three modules, figuring ~80% efficiency let's just call that 500w of +12vdc. This is 41.6 amps of +12vdc. Now each module has groups of chips fed by a +12vdc to +1.2vdc converter to feed the cores. ~500w @ +12vdc divided by 240 chips = ~2w per chip BEFORE the losses of the +12vdc to +1.2vdc converter. Those are usually incredibly efficient, let's call it 95%, so 475w of +1.2vdc, 395 amps.
I'm sure I'm butchering all the math here with calculating PSU efficiencies and such but this shows 1.979 watts @ +1.2vdc or 1.64 amps per chip.
I hope this makes sense to you. With these numbers, 3 of their chips, which provides (63,000/240)*3=786MH/s could be powered by a USB port providing 0.5 amps @ +12vdc. Call it 2 chips to give a nice buffer under the 0.5 amp limit and you have a neat little device. It won't generate crap for BTC though.. better off targeting something in the 5-10 GH/s range.
The information i found stated 450W for 3 modules not including PSU. USB is 5VDC nominal +/- 5% limiting the device to 2.5W total. We'd need around 300 - 500mW for micro and clock generation. The rest of your math looks spot on.
So far I'm up to to around US$7 in parts, not including the Avalon chip, with a few technical assumptions. Assuming we'd get the avalon for $2 - $5, a unit price for a usb miner under $15 is realistic. For the next generation, hopefully they include a PLL on die!
Sam.
on the site, it clearly we are selling chips, just gotta get some documentation together before we can move forward.
it's a on going battle with ideology and pragmatism, this is going to take some time, but it'll come.
it's a on going battle with ideology and pragmatism, this is going to take some time, but it'll come.
Thanks for the update. How about just a dump of your design notes with a disclaimer? It'd mean I could get started on the design.
Sam.
From the various specs i found floating around, core is 256MHz, 1.15 - 1.2v. I/O is 8 lines at 3.3v. I worked out the chip would consume around 1700mW. That'll be at the core voltage so 1.5A per chip should do it. Easily within USB power limits even with a typical DC-DC stage.
Unless we can find a micro that can output a 256MHz secondary oscillator, we need an external oscillator block (if the core - i/o is asynchronous) or a PLL to multiply the micro oscillator.
I'm not a fan of making a through-hole soldering kit. Way too geeky and more expensive than a fully built and tested SMT device. While work with 250MHz, physical wiring tolerances are a concern. A large blob of solder in the wrong place may be OK at DC but at 250MHz, couples signals to other tracks. Happy to help with an SMT design.
I can't be of much help right now. On vacation with just a tablet!
Sam.
Unless we can find a micro that can output a 256MHz secondary oscillator, we need an external oscillator block (if the core - i/o is asynchronous) or a PLL to multiply the micro oscillator.
I'm not a fan of making a through-hole soldering kit. Way too geeky and more expensive than a fully built and tested SMT device. While work with 250MHz, physical wiring tolerances are a concern. A large blob of solder in the wrong place may be OK at DC but at 250MHz, couples signals to other tracks. Happy to help with an SMT design.
I can't be of much help right now. On vacation with just a tablet!
Sam.
My impression was that ASIC designs are foundry-specific. How do you open-source that? Even if you published the Verilog, what good would it do?
ASIC designs are technology specific but not tied to any machine calibration. They should open source the functional verilog as well as the full mask and specification - a turn key design.
Dude,
Let us focus with simple things first.
They have announce that they will sell chips in bulk. If they publish the PCB designs (Asic Board+Controller +PDU + Components list), It will be more than enough. I do not se a reason why they shall not to do it as long this design is related with their chip. If They do that I am about to buy bulk chips and build my own units and most of us can do. I will bevery happy to do that personaly
What about that Ngzhang, Bitsync - I have mailed you a couple of times and no response still
That may be good enough for you but still misses the ethos of open source. While they scramble to get their avalons out the door, others could be doing large production runs of the same design or working on extending the original design. This is the whole point of open source hardware. Yifu says he wants decentralised mining competition, I call his bluff. If he doesnt open source it, he was in it for the money all along.
My impression was that ASIC designs are foundry-specific. How do you open-source that? Even if you published the Verilog, what good would it do?
ASIC designs are technology specific but not tied to any machine calibration. They should open source the functional verilog as well as the full mask and specification - a turn key design.
and the hardware part is not that complicated either. and if they sell the chips (posted at the bottom of the Avalon website) there will be a datasheet on how those work too so.
Would it help if I changed the topic to have HARDWARE in caps? Would that avoid several posts about open sourcing the software?
Datasheets are just the tip of the iceberg. For an analogy, it'd be like having to clone software by reading the end user manual.
How about a USB stick miner? The current Avalon chip is less than 2.5W, the USB power limit. It's around 275MH/s and could probably be sold for less than $5 in quantity.
Dream on dude 
Ah, huh. Troll.
Ugh, everyone's suddenly an electronics engineer.
Interfacing should be a doddle if they've used something industry standard like SPI or I2C. USB design with an 8bit micro and a simple serial bus could be whacked out in an afternoon. Its so much simpler than a big rig design since power conversion design is mostly done for you.
USB sticks would make efficient mining resource available to everyone. Want a bit more mining power? Just buy the latest mining stick and shove it in your powered usb hub along with the rest.
In fact, fuck it. I'll start a kickstarter project for the mining stick. I just need a spec and a budgetary price from avalon, design the board, start a firmware open source git repo, find a pcb fab, stuffing and testing service and we're away :-)
Sam.
Re: [Group Buy] Avalon ASIC Batch 3 [CLOSED- Seven 4 module Avalons ordered]
Hello everyone. I just wanted to introduce myself. I'm excited to be a part of the group. I got 8 BTC in the mix!
Does that equate to roughly a 1/103 (8btc/824btc)? Just checking to see if I have roughly the right numbers. Also, with 8 4mod units we have 640,000 mh? or 640/gh. I enjoy a little trading and collecting. Thanks for any help out there.
Does that equate to roughly a 1/103 (8btc/824btc)? Just checking to see if I have roughly the right numbers. Also, with 8 4mod units we have 640,000 mh? or 640/gh. I enjoy a little trading and collecting. Thanks for any help out there.
Hi, I've been working on the numbers all night and am maybe about 1/2 through confirming investors deposits, payout addresses, and forum names. I took a break to check the forums and.. umm... crunch some more numbers.
A crude estimate of your monthly portion of the profits can be calculated by using the following formula:
(X-409.08) * .98 * .97 * (Y/715.694) = Your portion of profit in USD
Note: Enter X in USD and Y in BTC
X= Net profit (without power costs/pool fee/my fee)
409.08 = Power costs I expect to be about $409.08/month
.98 = pools 2% fee (may be a little more or less depending on what pool we choose)
.97 = my 3% fee
Y= your investment in BTC
715.694 = total amount invested in BTC (this number is not exact, but very close)
With the above formula, use any Bitcoin mining calculator with these numbers: 595,000 Mh @ 5600 watts.
I hope my above math is correct, someone please check me. I have been dealing with numbers with many decimal places for hours now.. at my day job aswell..
Thanks CH. Sounds legit.
If the 30 day break even is correct, the mining sindicate should average one block mined every day. So why join a pool?
Sam.
Re: [Group Buy] Avalon ASIC Batch 3 [CLOSED- Seven 4 module Avalons ordered]
FINALLY out of newbie exile...
Australia is 230VAC single phase, same as here. Europe is 240V. 63A is the standard pole fuse on a domestic supply here in New Zealand and probably most 220V-240V countries. Loosely speaking, this gives most customers 15kVA of supply in ideal circumstances. In fact, even if you have a 63A pole fuse, your switchboard fuse is likely to be 40A to grade properly with the pole fuse. This give a practical upper limit of 9.6kVA
Electricity supply availability is a concern, depending on the actual fusing circuit breakers, CoinHoarder has. I'm assuming each rig is around 800W = 5600W or 5.6kVA, assuming unity power factor. If CoinHoarder's house is limited to 9.6kVA, boiling the kettle when the light are on will pop the fuse.
More of a concern, though, is dirty power. Yep, I deal with power quality investigations on a regular basis. In short, if a customer's appliance blows up, we (network company) have no evidence that the fault was caused by our network. In actual fact, it probably was but we have to tell the customer to make an insurance claim on the appliance (or "tough luck"). Advanced electronic logging meters will change all that in the near future. Meanwhile, say a voltage spike fries our mining rigs: Even if CH proves it was a network fault, CH can't make an effective warranty or insurance claim. It'd be at least a month or more before the rig(s) are assessed, new rigs built, tested, shipped and commissioned.
I think the idea of co-location was mentioned earlier. I had a quick look at facilities in the states offering 1/4 of a rack for $400/month. That's a pittance for round-the-clock care, clean power, physical security, gobs of bandwidth and backup generators. CH can still get his admin premium. I just want to mitigate risk where feasible to do so.
I guess this is a conversation we'll have over the next month or so before the rigs arrive. Looking forward to making an actual contribution to the network, instead of just speculating.
Sam.
Australia is 230VAC single phase, same as here. Europe is 240V. 63A is the standard pole fuse on a domestic supply here in New Zealand and probably most 220V-240V countries. Loosely speaking, this gives most customers 15kVA of supply in ideal circumstances. In fact, even if you have a 63A pole fuse, your switchboard fuse is likely to be 40A to grade properly with the pole fuse. This give a practical upper limit of 9.6kVA
Electricity supply availability is a concern, depending on the actual fusing circuit breakers, CoinHoarder has. I'm assuming each rig is around 800W = 5600W or 5.6kVA, assuming unity power factor. If CoinHoarder's house is limited to 9.6kVA, boiling the kettle when the light are on will pop the fuse.
More of a concern, though, is dirty power. Yep, I deal with power quality investigations on a regular basis. In short, if a customer's appliance blows up, we (network company) have no evidence that the fault was caused by our network. In actual fact, it probably was but we have to tell the customer to make an insurance claim on the appliance (or "tough luck"). Advanced electronic logging meters will change all that in the near future. Meanwhile, say a voltage spike fries our mining rigs: Even if CH proves it was a network fault, CH can't make an effective warranty or insurance claim. It'd be at least a month or more before the rig(s) are assessed, new rigs built, tested, shipped and commissioned.
I think the idea of co-location was mentioned earlier. I had a quick look at facilities in the states offering 1/4 of a rack for $400/month. That's a pittance for round-the-clock care, clean power, physical security, gobs of bandwidth and backup generators. CH can still get his admin premium. I just want to mitigate risk where feasible to do so.
I guess this is a conversation we'll have over the next month or so before the rigs arrive. Looking forward to making an actual contribution to the network, instead of just speculating.
Sam.
Rack space rent maybe a good idea....but depends on the sort of insurance they offer/cost
Australia is 240V
also 3 phase is readily available, and I know quite a few houses have it.
Including ones I have lived in, the 9.6 KVA sounds realisitc.
I think that CoinH, unless he has an upgraded power supply may be in for a bit of "shock"
but I hope not
he seems to be running a LT farm, and these chew power and it looks like he does not do things by halves
He also seems to have 2 separate circus in his house for power
so he should be able to use one dedicated to ASICS and the other for house hold
Australia changed from 240V to 230V in 2000. Sorry to be pedantic!
I'm confused about the two independent circuits. I'm not sure about Australia but in NZ, buildings are only allowed one point of supply, for safe isolation in the event of a fire, etc.
Yep, running 3 phase or upgrading the existing protection on a single may be options.
Re: Will a new cryptocurrency have to be made for high frequency trading?
He didn't mention anything about exchanges.
You mean instant confirmation services like https://www.bitinstant.com/ ?
If you're asking whether bitcoin can handle the throughput of a point of sale network, then no. Not right now anyway. The block size can be increased to accommodate this in the future but it's not needed right now.
Sam.
It won't ever be needed. You're not going to pay for a 0.0007 BTC cup of coffee on the blockchain.You mean instant confirmation services like https://www.bitinstant.com/ ?
If you're asking whether bitcoin can handle the throughput of a point of sale network, then no. Not right now anyway. The block size can be increased to accommodate this in the future but it's not needed right now.
Sam.
I really don't get why AA would not be used by the manufacture to mine, if they were worth more than 75 BTC.
Mainly for the decentralization of bitcoin.
I just don't buy this...no one rationally does that in a commercial concern....
they must be mining the crap out th BC before they sell them.
[/quote]
Avalon ASICs are manufacturing at least 100TH/sec of mining resource. That's a comfortable majority of the network. Confidence drops in the bitcoin network because one entity is in control. The price of bitcoin plummets because no one wants any part of a tainted network. Avalon get thousands of coins worth $0.0000001.
From a commercial perspective, those working in the bitcoin currency are sensitive to the public's confidence in the currency. Avalon would be cutting their own throat if they mined with no competition.
Avalon doesn't want to become a "central mining hardware authority."
They are disappointed that BFL is such a failure. They want to have competitors.
They could help competitors by publishing their designs, but that actually tends to push competing designs out of the market, because it's cheaper to just copy Avalon.
Oh, and by the way, they claim they will open source their software. (It hasn't happened yet, though.) Why don't you ask them to make good on what they already promised?
Avalon has grown really tired of this forum's behavior (troll, off-topic, reading comprehension fail).
Avalon wouldn't be an authority if the hardware is open source for the same reason Bitcoin software is not an oligarchy. EG: If the majority of bitcoin users don't like the changes in a point release, they can choose not to upgrade but fork the project instead.They are disappointed that BFL is such a failure. They want to have competitors.
They could help competitors by publishing their designs, but that actually tends to push competing designs out of the market, because it's cheaper to just copy Avalon.
Oh, and by the way, they claim they will open source their software. (It hasn't happened yet, though.) Why don't you ask them to make good on what they already promised?
Avalon has grown really tired of this forum's behavior (troll, off-topic, reading comprehension fail).
If you want to create competition quickly, business savvy start-ups with limited engeering resources could bring clones to market easily.
If competing designs get pushed out of the market, the designs weren't good enough. That's the free market at work. It doesn't matter whether the competitor is a clone or an original design. It just needs to perform as required or desired.
Re: [Group Buy] Avalon ASIC Batch 3 [CLOSED- Seven 4 module Avalons ordered]
FINALLY out of newbie exile...
Australia is 230VAC single phase, same as here. Europe is 240V. 63A is the standard pole fuse on a domestic supply here in New Zealand and probably most 220V-240V countries. Loosely speaking, this gives most customers 15kVA of supply in ideal circumstances. In fact, even if you have a 63A pole fuse, your switchboard fuse is likely to be 40A to grade properly with the pole fuse. This give a practical upper limit of 9.6kVA
Electricity supply availability is a concern, depending on the actual fusing circuit breakers, CoinHoarder has. I'm assuming each rig is around 800W = 5600W or 5.6kVA, assuming unity power factor. If CoinHoarder's house is limited to 9.6kVA, boiling the kettle when the light are on will pop the fuse.
More of a concern, though, is dirty power. Yep, I deal with power quality investigations on a regular basis. In short, if a customer's appliance blows up, we (network company) have no evidence that the fault was caused by our network. In actual fact, it probably was but we have to tell the customer to make an insurance claim on the appliance (or "tough luck"). Advanced electronic logging meters will change all that in the near future. Meanwhile, say a voltage spike fries our mining rigs: Even if CH proves it was a network fault, CH can't make an effective warranty or insurance claim. It'd be at least a month or more before the rig(s) are assessed, new rigs built, tested, shipped and commissioned.
I think the idea of co-location was mentioned earlier. I had a quick look at facilities in the states offering 1/4 of a rack for $400/month. That's a pittance for round-the-clock care, clean power, physical security, gobs of bandwidth and backup generators. CH can still get his admin premium. I just want to mitigate risk where feasible to do so.
I guess this is a conversation we'll have over the next month or so before the rigs arrive. Looking forward to making an actual contribution to the network, instead of just speculating.
Sam.
Australia is 230VAC single phase, same as here. Europe is 240V. 63A is the standard pole fuse on a domestic supply here in New Zealand and probably most 220V-240V countries. Loosely speaking, this gives most customers 15kVA of supply in ideal circumstances. In fact, even if you have a 63A pole fuse, your switchboard fuse is likely to be 40A to grade properly with the pole fuse. This give a practical upper limit of 9.6kVA
Electricity supply availability is a concern, depending on the actual fusing circuit breakers, CoinHoarder has. I'm assuming each rig is around 800W = 5600W or 5.6kVA, assuming unity power factor. If CoinHoarder's house is limited to 9.6kVA, boiling the kettle when the light are on will pop the fuse.
More of a concern, though, is dirty power. Yep, I deal with power quality investigations on a regular basis. In short, if a customer's appliance blows up, we (network company) have no evidence that the fault was caused by our network. In actual fact, it probably was but we have to tell the customer to make an insurance claim on the appliance (or "tough luck"). Advanced electronic logging meters will change all that in the near future. Meanwhile, say a voltage spike fries our mining rigs: Even if CH proves it was a network fault, CH can't make an effective warranty or insurance claim. It'd be at least a month or more before the rig(s) are assessed, new rigs built, tested, shipped and commissioned.
I think the idea of co-location was mentioned earlier. I had a quick look at facilities in the states offering 1/4 of a rack for $400/month. That's a pittance for round-the-clock care, clean power, physical security, gobs of bandwidth and backup generators. CH can still get his admin premium. I just want to mitigate risk where feasible to do so.
I guess this is a conversation we'll have over the next month or so before the rigs arrive. Looking forward to making an actual contribution to the network, instead of just speculating.
Sam.
Re: Will a new cryptocurrency have to be made for high frequency trading?
He didn't mention anything about exchanges.
You mean instant confirmation services like https://www.bitinstant.com/ ?
If you're asking whether bitcoin can handle the throughput of a point of sale network, then no. Not right now anyway. The block size can be increased to accommodate this in the future but it's not needed right now.
Sam.
You mean instant confirmation services like https://www.bitinstant.com/ ?
If you're asking whether bitcoin can handle the throughput of a point of sale network, then no. Not right now anyway. The block size can be increased to accommodate this in the future but it's not needed right now.
Sam.