Quote from: farsky on Today at 08:32:08 PM

Quote from: DaRude on August 14, 2025, 08:18:27 PM

How nice to totally ignore the Bucharest NATO summit, where in April 2008 USA wanted Georgia to join NATO, which would've been impossible with disputed territories in South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Then, just 4 months later Georgia ~~attacks~~ sends it's army to take over South Ossetia by force, is all just a total coincidence, not even worth mentioning for "full data", right? Roll Eyes

this is an accompanying/additional reason and it took place.
Georgia would have tried to get its territories back in any case.
But of course you are trying to shift the topic to NATO?
it is so predictable.
A club of historians is being formed here since the time of the Rurikovichs (reference to Putin)

in any case it is an off-topic.

However, you have really shit yourself with your lies.

Quote from: DaRude on August 14, 2025, 09:27:03 PM

Quote from: farsky on August 14, 2025, 08:11:51 PM

again Gaza...
I regret reading this, but now I can't keep quiet

Quote from: DaRude on August 14, 2025, 06:50:42 PM

in one Ukrainians are encouraged to relocate

What nonsense, what kind of "encouragement for resettlement" are we talking about?

Are you not aware that Ukrainians issue evacuation orders for cities coming on the front lines, they even try to force people to evacuate but millions of civilians still stay and then become Russian citizens.

I know, but we're not talking about millions.
Dude, I'm literally from Russia and I have relatives in Ukraine.
And I know (everyone knows) that there are NOT millions of people who remain on the front lines.

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Obviously there is no exact data, Ukraine wouldn't release it. A minority? Please cite your claims. How many did you think there were?

According to unofficial data, more than a million people died, more likely closer to 1.2 million.

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What makes them not "full citizens" are you claiming that "full" Russian citizens were not mobilized as well? Citation or just spreading propaganda?

complete lack of social protection

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Cite something to back up your claim that there is "no water or electricity" in Crimea, Mariupol, Melitopol in comparison to Ukrainian cities, or stop spreading propaganda.

in many cities of Ukraine that are captured, there is no water and electricity, the cities are not being restored

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Thank you for proving my point, despite such huge land destruction, somehow Russia amazingly still managed to keep civilian casualties to a minimum.

Oh, I see you’re quite good at dodging responsibility.
You lied — I caught you. But now you’re twisting it as if I “confirmed your point of view,” even though earlier you claimed there was no destruction.
I’ll repeat your lie and my reply again.

Quote from: farsky on August 14, 2025, 08:11:51 PM

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collateral damage in Ukraine is minimal compared to military deaths and lower in absolutes than in Gaza.

This is already a blatant lie. In Ukraine, dozens of small towns have been destroyed, together exceeding the area of Gaza.
In Gaza, about 185 square kilometers are destroyed. In Ukraine (counting only the immediate combat zone), the scale of destruction is about 300 square kilometers — and that’s just medium-sized towns.
On top of that, there are countless villages. And there is also destruction in cities far from the front lines that are still hit by Russian missiles.
In total, this adds up to about 900 square kilometers — 2.4 times larger than Gaza.
There is not a single city in Ukraine that has not been shelled. This is not a border skirmish, it is a full-scale war.

Nature and open land have also been devastated: fields, forests, shelterbelts, roads, bridges, and dams destroyed.

Your ignorance is catastrophic. I strongly advise you not to get into topics you clearly don’t understand.

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Ukraine-HRMMU has documented the deaths of at least 13,883 civilians, including 726 children

This data is understated.
In the combat zone, it is impossible to adequately and safely not only recover all the bodies, but even approach the area.
Ukraine does not have a Hamas-style “Ministry of Health” that releases casualty figures within an hour after an attack.

the problem with people like me is that I do not have endless time to sit here and object to your lies. I don't have the time or resources for this. I don't get paid for this. That's why propaganda usually wins.

And of course you're trying to say that military alliance trying to enlarge and expand to two new countries, after which there is a war in both of those countries is just a total coincidence?

So i make a statement, you question it, i provide a citation that stated that 3 to 3.5 million Ukrainians are estimated to be living under occupation, you provide no information, accuse me of lying, and you back it up with that you're from Russia and have relatives in Ukraine? Solid point Roll Eyes

I never said they remained on the front lines, they might've relocated within Russia, Crimea, Mariupol etc...

"According to unofficial data, more than a million people died, more likely closer to 1.2 million." again i provide citation from United Nations Human Rights on CIVILIAN casualties (i believe from both sides) but you talk about people dying, what "people" does your unofficial data without citation include military from both sides?

What social protection do natural Russian citizens and naturalized Russian citizens from like Belarus enjoy that naturalized Russian citizen from Ukraine do not?

"in many cities of Ukraine that are captured, there is no water and electricity, the cities are not being restored" yes there is a war zone and some cities might be so destroyed that they just cannot be restored. Not sure if there's much left of Bakhmut to restore. Show me a captured city that stayed relatively intact and is far from the front lines that is not being restored?

WTF i never claimed there was no destruction. I said collateral damage (in terms of civilian casualties) in Ukraine was minimal in comparison to Gaza. I don't even understand what lie you're accusing me of,

I agree data might not be exact but it's the best we have unless you can provide a more accurate source. And no, wild claims based on the fact that you're Russian are not more credible than UNHR.