Demand and supply is the major factor that controls the price of any commodity and the same applies to bitcoin. Bitcoin started growing from the scratch and got to this price because a lot of people have adopted it and the demand increases while the supply decreases every four years during the halving.

Other factors are minor factors and they are short-term but demand and supply is are long-term factor.

In addition, DCA limit the risk in bitcoin because it gives you the opportunity to buy bitcoin at various price interval, and very easy to implement. Since DCA is done with our discretionary income, it means that even if we lose that money it does not matter to us because bitcoin price might go against us and that will not be a problem. However, the odds of bitcoin price going against us is low and that is why one need to invest regularly and consistent as a new investor using DCA for up to 4-10 years and above because long term investment is the best.

Even if a newbie increases his income, the problem of buying right away (in a DCA) versus holding some value in reserves for buying on dips is not automatically resolved merely because of such increased income, and it seems that the problem of having money to buy dips is more likely to be resolved by feeling like you have already been accumulating enough BTC and you are able to hold some extra money in reserves for buying on dips....

Another practice that would justify holding back money for buying on the dip would be if you might have already invested a large amount at any given price point (such as using a lump sum), and then therefore you might hold some money in reserves in order to buy the dip, but since you had already invested a decent amount, it is not like you are prejudiced by holding some value back for buying on the dip.

Part of the definition of discretionary income is having discretion regarding where to put that money as it comes in and if the discretionary income amount is increasing by either receiving greater income or cutting expenses, then there still will be decisions in regards to where to put such increased discretionary income amounts of money as it comes in and whether to keep some in reserves for buying BTC on dips or to just buy BTC in a way that is more or less as soon as the extra money comes available which would be considered to be within DCA practices.

I am not going to proclaim to know the answers to these questions because if someone does increase his discretionary income, he still is faced with needs to have to decide whether to buy BTC right away with that increased income or to hold some of that extra income back for buying on dips - not necessarily easy or obvious choices.. yet each of us are making these kinds of balances on a regular basis involving how much BTC we believe that we are ready, willing and able to accumulate and in which ways we are going to carry out such BTC accumulations as our income/expenses might change from time to time, the size of our investment into BTC would presumably be growing with the passage of time, but also the value of our BTC holdings will also be changing (including the price in which we are able to buy more of it, if that is what we want to do).


I doubt that your numbers for traders versus investors are correct with any level of precision (in other words you are making up numbers to make your claims sound good, even if your numbers might have some truth to them), yet even if we agree that a lot of people treat bitcoin as a trade rather than as an investment, I doubt that it is a good idea to promote such dumbness as if it is a good thing to do, especially since many of us already recognize and appreciate that bitcoin remains amongst the best, if not the best investment available to anyone on a world-wide basis, so if you happen to know that kind of information, then why would it be a good idea to encourage trading it (or gambling with it, rather than more sound practices), merely because potentially a lot of folks are doing that.  Pretty weak logic there Hamza2424.

Another thing, there may well be a lot of people who have little to no disposable income (and I agree that is the case), so those people who are using their money to buy bitcoin (when it is beyond their disposable income - because they need such money to live) are therefore gambling with their money rather than investing, and surely there could be ways that they could figure out ways to reduce the amount that they put into bitcoin in order to be able to hang onto it longer which would turn their buying of bitcoin into an investment rather than a trade.. rather than attempting to play the wave that is likely not going to get them anywhere in life.. ..  It is like playing the lottery.  Yes, I know a lot of people do it, but it is not a good place to put your money, so it does not make any sense to be promoting such systems - especially on an individual level, even though people seem to love to do it.

When they put the money that they need into bitcoin and hope to cash out with dollar profits within a cycle, they may well be attempting to play 1-2 years.. and yeah, maybe they will get lucky with that approach and maybe they won't.. and yeah.. maybe if there already exist ways that they are able to set aside that money for 1-2 years, then there would be possibilities for them to choose a different amount (perhaps a smaller amount), in order to set it aside longer, such as 4-10 years or longer, and 4 years is surely on the lower end that would ONLY apply to people with short timelines, and most people should be shooting for way longer than 4 years, otherwise they are still not really investing.

If they were to figure out what it means to invest, then they may be able to figure out how to do such a thing for 4-10 years or longer rather than 1-2 years or some other short timeline trying to play the wave.. ... but yeah it well still it probably would be better if they figured out an amount that they are able to put away for longer than 1-2 years and not worry about it for 4-10 years or longer.  There may well be some mindset involved in this rather than any kind of specific inabilities to develop better practices (even though yeah a lot of the world is desperate, yet they likely are not going to improve their situation by trading and gambling with bitcoin rather than figuring out some way to carry out investments, even if their investment amounts happen to not be a lot of money.. but still setting it aside for 4-10 years or longer.

And personally, you can do what you want, but I am not going to encourage trading/gambling rather than investing in bitcoin - even if perhaps a lot of people engage in such bad habits, as you proclaim.

So yeah, just because a lot of people trade and/or gamble with bitcoin and you seem to want to promote those ideas, that does not mean that it is good to promote such ideas as if they were the right thing to do.. You can do what you like, and I will continue to say that it is a bad idea to talk about bitcoin that way, even if a lot of people do it.

And this line of discussion reminds me of an earlier conversation that we had.  Weren't you the one who was trying to defend the idea to refer to bitcoin as crypto because a lot of people (everyone else) do(es) it?  That is dumb logic, and surely I could be getting you mixed up with someone else, but it seems that we had that kind of conversation in the past in which you were also using vague language such as crypto to also include bitcoin and suggesting that it is a good idea talk about bitcoin like that because everyone else does it..  

Poor you to have such lackenings in your abilities to focus.. and you are getting caught up in the fault of logic that involves what everyone else is doing to guide you in your own thinking and/or actions, again presuming that I am not mixing you up with another forum member.


It is good to provide sources for those kinds of assertions, and like you said, it might not be an accurate assessment, but at least if you show the source, then any of us would be able to look into it further.


You will likely do much better if you have some kind of a long term plan in regards to bitcoin, and sure if you cannot resist but to gamble and/or trade with you bitcoin, make sure that you are not gambling/trading with more than 10% of your bitcoin - while at the same time, don't be cheating by continuing to dip into your main stash of bitcoin when you are losing the 10% that you are fucking around with.  There are ways to discipline yourself with limits but also to potentially still gamble/trade within such limits.

I disagree with your statement partly because long term investing is not risk free. Investing in Bitcoin or other coins certainly involves risk. If you are a professional investor then you are used to taking risks as the price of any currency is not always the same and fluctuates constantly. This is the picture we see in the cryptocurrency market.
However, although the investment involves risk, the level of risk in Bitcoin investment is relatively low. The risk level of Bitcoin investment is low because investors buy and hold the currency for a long period of time by buying and accumulating small amounts in what we call the Dollar Cost Averaging method. If you want to earn substantial profits, investing in this method requires you to plan to hold the investment for a long period of time.

The only best way to alternate our investment is investing in other projects outside cryptocurrency, such as real estate, but in as much as an investor is considering investing in alternative cryptocurrency then in my opinion he's no more investing but gambling with his money on shitcoins. The POW of bitcoin makes it exceptional as the best crypto to hold for long and be sure of profit as you accumulate as your pocket can stash. Seeing a risk that has 99% of failing and still going into it shouldn't be  articulated to be an investment but stupidity - what's the right term again: gambling!

There may be some ways in which we are saying very similar things, yet just saying those things in different ways - which kind of causes me to question if you are really taking in the ideas that I am attempting to share.

We all know that guys are responsible for what they do, so surely don't want to get into any kind suggestion in which I am telling guys what to do, even though frequently I can be quite forceful in my suggestion for everyone to make sure that they get some bitcoin and that guys should also attempt to be as aggressive as they can in regards to their bitcoin investment without overdoing it. .so each of us has to apply those concepts to their own situation and figure out their own balance, and surely I am not in favor of diversification for the mere sake of it - however, as any of us our building up our investment portfolio, there may well be no problem in terms of staying concentrated in one investment (including just having bitcoin and cash) for 5-10 years or longer, since it could take 5-10 years or longer merely to get your investment portfolio size up to an amount that is greater than 1-2 years of your income/expenses, and some of these amounts you are not going to know in advance in regards to either how much your income is going to be down the road or even how well BTC might or might not perform at various times that you are making the down the road measurements of how it is doing in reference to how you might have anticipated it to do in your earlier years of investing into it.

So part of the point is that your actually building of your wealth contributes to you becoming a person who is no longer poor because you start to have resources that you might or might not choose to dip into and you may well start to become concerned that you have too many of your then built wealth that is subjected to too much volatility, so your choices to diversify somewhat out of the investment and to put some value into other things (and perhaps even into inferior investments) may well become a consideration as kind of necessity that you have in order to preserve what wealth you had been building.. .. so merely the fact that you want to continue to build your wealth does not necessarily justify choices to not preserve the wealth that you might have had been building over 5-10 years or longer.. ..

but yeah, those may well be future considerations because you start out with perceptions of being very poor, but as your wealth grows you are not as poor as you used to be and you might even start to feel that you are becoming richer and richer, but you have some desires to make sure that you don't slip back into being poor, so you may well justify needs to diversify into other assets, and yeah, maybe you never consider shitcoins to be part of any diversification plan, but there may well become some kinds of investments that are justifiable in terms of diversification, especially if your only previous way was to diversify between cash and bitcoin, and so in several senses, you might be able to achieve some diversification in some other assets that are still serving some of the purposes of cash - except that they are earning yield rather than several of the disadvantages of cash that involves is ongoing debasement.. ..

and you don't resolve those matters by putting that value into bitcoin, since at that point you may well conclude that you already have a lot in bitcoin.. so you sometimes need other places to put it, and yeah, you might not come to those kinds of conclusions until 5-10 years down the road, and it would be way too premature to be ruling out those ideas merely because right now you are in your earliest years of building your investment portfolio that likely ONLY includes bitcoin  and cash and there is nothing wrong  with keeping that kind of focus until your investment portfolio might grown to a certain size that might start causing you to feel justification to spread it out a bit more... whether that is 1-2 years of income/expenses in your bitcoin, or maybe those feelings come when you have 5-8 years of your income that are ONLY in bitcoin and cash, and you may well strart to feel way too. concentrated and vulnerable.. and each of us has to make those kinds of decisions and hopefully you do not devolve into gambling merely because you are against the idea of diversification...which could lead to your own peril.. but that's your choice, if you end up gambling in those kinds of ways.


No one is saying to invest into shitcoins, but sometimes people consider those kinds of avenues, which might end up being better than keeping value in their local fiat.. or even if there is local fiat, dollars, stable coins and then there might be some choices that are made that could be justifiable down the road in terms of what you might have available in terms of keeping value or how long you might keep value in various places besides bitcoin and cash.


I am not suggesting to diversify too early.  I believe that diversification is not needed for several years, especially for poor people and probably even getting to a point of 1/2 year or even a whole year of income/expenses in bitcoin and in cash, but later on when your investment portfolio starts to get larger there surely can be some justification.. but you don't need to start out thinking that diversification is necessary. especially if you might only be investing $10-$20 per week, and so it may well take several years before it even makes sense to start to diversify.. so someone investing $20 a week for a year would have ONLY invested $1,040, and personally, I would think that it would take several years.. and yeah in that case after 10 years, the amount invested is only $10,400
and maybe if the BTC price had gone up 2x or 5x or even 10x, that may well not mean that your portfolio is worth 2x, 5x or 10x more, since some of your investments would have been earlier and some of them would have had come later, but if you have an income that is less than $10k per year, then if you have $30k in bitcoin, and $10k in cash (or cash equivalents), you might start to get nervous about having so much that is ONLY in bitcoin and in cash... especially if bitcoin might go up and down a lot and you might want to remove some of that volatility.. so yeah, there is no real direct answer and maybe you are not going to exactly know in advance in regards if there might be some justification in terms of diversifying some of your investment, which also might not mean selling your bitcoin, but might mean starting ot invest in other things., as mentioned, whether property, stocks, bonds, commodities or cash/ cash equivalents..


This all may well be correct..... so yeah, we are not really saying anything different in this part.


Fuck "crypto assets"

Who knows what you are talking about?  You don't even seem to know how to use the word "bitcoin" in a sentence, since you did not mention "bitcoin" in any place in your post, so how are we going to know what you are talking about?

Are you talking about bitcoin or some vague bullshit?

Do you even know what you are talking about?

There is no such thing as investing into "crypto assets".  That is retarded.

In order to have some kind of specificity about what we are posting about we can mention bitcoin... and we can also describe what we are going to do about our investment into bitcoin and our approach with bitcoin. That would be a lot more specific than your vague references to "crypto assets" whatever that means.. you sound like a mumbling and bumbling politician.... but if we are referring to some various shitcoins, then which one(s) are you referring too, and why the fuck would we want to either talk about them here or refer to them as some kind of vague concept?  Not that I am asking you to speculate about which shitcoins happen to be less shitty. .of to engage in some kind of compare and contrast of which shitcoins might or might not be a good idea.. that sounds really dumb.. so why not just stick with talking about bitcoin, and if you want to talk about some various shitcoins then take that to some other thread..... Another thing for guys who cannot help but to trade or gamble or to fuck around with shitcoins, hopefully you are able to at least limit yourself to less than 10% of the size of your bitcoin holdings, in the event that you cannot help yourself but to trade/gamble rather than invest.


Yes, any investment timeline of less than 4 years, including your proposal to get in and out in one year is trading rather than investing.. . so hopefully you do not end up selling too much too soon and never being able to get as many BTC because you were too busy fucking around with trading and gambling rather than accumulating BTC. .which likely would be the smarter way of approaching something like BTC..

But, hey, you are free to do what you like, even if it is not very smart.

That is a weird way of saying it... When you use the expression "at the moment," it is like you are recognizing (or emphasizing) temporary pump and dump opportunities in bitcoin, and surely we can never really know "at the moment" kinds of considerations, even in regards to bitcoin.. which the opposite seems to be part of the rational that anyone taking a 4-10 year or longer investment timeline will not necessarily be focusing on bitcoin in regards to "at the moment" kind of investment considerations when getting into bitcoin or when adding any more BTC to his/her current BTC stash.

It is also not easy for any newbie to merely consider bitcoin as an "at the moment" kind of an investment, since it could take 4-10 years or more just to build the size of the BTC investment, unless the person actually has abilities to front load his/her bitcoin investment, which truly an overwhelming majority of folks are more able to invest into bitcoin and/or anything else in incremental kinds of ways rather than having a bunch of value hanging around that they can put into bitcoin... so yeah, in essence, at the moment seems more like a trading kind of a consideration rather than the way an investor would think about bitcoin.


I don't mind waiting as an approach for someone who might have had already bought a decent chunk of BTC, so then they are already prepared for UP...

So maybe someone is brand new to bitcoin within the last 2-3 months when this thread started.  So if such a hypothetical person were to have had come to bitcoin, and quickly evaluated his financial/psychological circumstances, and considered that he has around $3k income per month, about $2,200 per month in expenses, and about $6k saved up that he could invest into bitcoin, and maybe he had decided to invest $3k or more of his saved up amount into bitcoin and he decided to buy $100 worth of bitcoin per week, so then he still has that $3k and he is not sure if should put more of it into bitcoin or not, since he is already buying $100 per week.. and yeah, even right now if he has the $6k and he invests half of it right away, then maybe the other half is considered waiting money.. but still whether or not he employs the practice of buying $100 per week is up to him, but at least he put some value into bitcoin and he is not merely employing waiting as a strategy. 

Sure, some guys may come to bitcoin and may have even more precarious financial/psychological circumstances in which they have debt or they have not really figured out their disposable income because it varies every month, and they might not even have much if any savings, float, emergency fund, reserves and so they may well need to start in bitcoin more slowly and conservatively, yet even having some complicated financial/psychological circumstances would not necessarily justify that they wait rather than getting started in regards to buying some bitcoin and figuring out their financial/psychological details as they go.


Well, yeah, for the guy who is waiting rather than getting started right away, there might be a bit of an assumption that allowing the dollars to build up is a better way forward rather than putting some value into bitcoin right away.. so yeah if someone has really messed up finances and psychology, waiting may well be their idea of the better approach, which I still am not going to presume that folks are not able to figure out how to put $10 into bitcoin and to perhaps figure out some way to minimally invest while they are working out their details rather than presuming that their allowing cash to build up is the better move.

Sure, it is true that once the money goes into bitcoin, then it is better to consider that money to be locked away for 4-10 years or longer, so in that sense, there is a need to make sure that whatever is put into bitcoin is not going to be needed for 4-10 years or longer, but even with that kind of a consideration, I believe that waiting is not a good way to frame the matter... but yeah, position size may well have to be really small during those initial weeks and/or months well such a presumptively unorganized person is getting his/her financial/psychological matters in better order while beginning the earliest of stages in regards to how to invest into bitcoin.


I doubt that there is any need to get overly focused on profits for one or two cycles or more depending upon how much a person might be able to start to invest, and yeah, I don't have a lot of sympathy for folks who are coming into bitcoin and treating it as a trade of less than at least a whole cycle rather than treating it as an investment of 4-10 years or longer.


You have a strange way of expressing yourself STINKYBEE in regards to the various possible perspectives that guys might have in terms of wanting to get into bitcoin. Surely people are going to have all kinds of perspectives in regards to bitcoin and some of those perspectives might be good and solid and others not very well informed, including the fact that bitcoin is so damned immature that is still is quite likely that less than 1% of the world's population owns any bitcoin, and even the ones who own bitcoin may well not really know what they own, or what is the reason to get into bitcoin beyond its number go up technology.


For sure, I agree with the idea of not getting distracted into shitcoins, and to figure out bitcoin first, even though surely shitcoins are not going to be going away any time soon, and there are likely going to continue to be a large number of folks who continue to be distracted into various shitcoins or even distracted into failing/refusing to holding their own bitcoin rather than  the various "conveniences" of holding bitcoin on third parties -  which truly is mostly just price exposure and perhaps less valuable in terms of recognizing, appreciating and not getting distracted away from bitcoin's true value in regards to self-sovereignty and being able to hold your own keys.

Surely, even some of the more experienced bitcoiner may well be getting somewhat frustrated by some of the various attacks on self-custodial wallets and various kind of privacy preserving ways of transacting and/or holding coins.  So the answers are not always clear and/or straight-forward, even if we might be referring to ongoing number going up technology and why bitcoin prices might be continuing to go up.. including that surely there is ONGOING recent demand for bitcoin that is coming through spot BTC ETF products that do not complement the self-sovereignty and/or self custodial (or even privacy) qualities of bitcoin, yet those recent products are opening a lot of doors to folks (or even institutions and governments) who previously had more limitations in the ways that they would be able to get bitcoin price exposure.


It is likely worthy of emphasis that bitcoin is bought through discretionary income that is most likely going to be measured in dollars (or other local fiat) for an overwhelming majority of persons, so the figuring out of how many bitcoin to buy or even how much in profits the BTC might should likely not even be any kind of central concern for 4-10 years or longer, unless of course, a person had been able to front-load his investment into bitcoin.

So, yeah, there is nothing wrong with keeping track of how your bitcoin investment is doing, and it may or may not even be profitable in the beginning years, and surely there is no guarantee that it is even going to be profitable in the longer term either (the 4-10 years or longer period), but at the same time a calculated risk is being embarked upon in which there should be consideration that the most that can be lost is 100% of the investment, while at the same time there are a large number of scenarios in which the investment into bitcoin may well be quite profitable and even quite profitable compared to other places that a person would be able to put his/her value, time and energies.. so the asymmetric upside potential of bitcoin remains a calculated consideration and each person has to figure out his/her own level of investment into it with extra money that they have available and that they could otherwise be spending that money on other things (other than bitcoin), and so choices are made that may or may not end up paying off, and so the choices are not always comfortable - even for folks who have been invested for a long time in bitcoin, even though surely it likely feels better to have your bitcoin investment to be in profits rather than not.. .. but there also needs to be some consideration that being in profits should not be something that is presumed as if if were guaranteed (by the way @Marvelockg, I am not presuming that you are engaging in any presumptions that bitcoin is guaranteed).

Sure it is good to have a longer time line, and that was part of the reason that I outlined the examples to show that the longer that we invest, even if we might start out at a market top, we still might well end up still putting ourselves into a good position.. even though surely it is not guaranteed, but we can see how our BTC portfolio is growing over a timeframe in which we might continue to buy for 4 years or more and then perhaps reassess if we might need to make any changes to what we are doing or just keep buying regularly.


Even if an investor has the same strategy, he might end up buying bitcoin at a higher price and then a lower price, so even a guy that got into bitcoin earlier could end up having a higher cost per BTC than someone who came in later, but in the longer run, he still would end up having more BTC, so the time in the market may still end up being better, even if he ended up with a bit of a higher cost per BTC than someone who came in later.  At the same time, there is ONLY so much value in comparing to other people, but a guy could still compare to himself at time one or time 2, and surely I am not much of a proponent for waiting, even though I know that sometimes, there may need to be adjustments to how much is bought based on anticipations of price conditions, including being able to buy BTC as the price is going down, if that might end up being a guy's point of entrance into BTC.


Sure.  How much invested is part of the formula, and another part of the formula is how much BTC each of them has.

The first guy has 0.5386 BTC  and the second guy has 0.4489 BTC. and sometimes we still cannot change the facts and/or the prices in which we end up accumulating BTC, and there may well be cases in which we acquire a bunch of BTC, and then the price goes down, and then we see some later entrants who are able to buy more BTC than we have for lower prices.. so yeah, we cannot necessarily avoid some of those kinds of situations, and we just need to do our best in terms of building our own stack so we feel as if we are prepared the potential of UP and also for down too.


Yes.  A guy could have bought various BTC earlier and ended up with $10k invested and 10 BTC and an average cost per BTC of around $1k, and he could choose whether or not to keep investing or if he believes that he has met his BTC accumulation goal and whether he is in a position to change his BTC strategy to something else.  Holding BTC gives options, and it may not be a great idea for anyone to just start cashing out his BTC  in large amounts, so personally I believe that there are ways to sustainably withdraw bitcoin through either time based withdrawal strategies or raking strategies that involve selling as the price goes up (I talk about both of those kinds of strategies in my sustainable withdrawal thread), yet a person still needs to figure out how much of an income he might want to get from his BTC in order to conclude whether he has enough BTC to start to employ sustainable withdrawal or if he wants to keep accumulating for a while or if he might just want to wait for a while between accumulation and when he might start to employ some other kinds of practices.

Buying dips can definitely give you leverage that adds up to a different profit on the overall investment. But you can take more advantage by your regular purchases like you are in regular DCA method and adding disposable income part every month by buying bitcoins and if you can run this process for 10 years or more then your portfolio will look highly decent and complete many cycles. Chances are that Bitcoin keeps adding up at a compounding rate. Additional stashing if you can increase the amount of DCAing periodically as your income increases. You must remember to keep bitcoin stashing strategy with buying on dips to take profit as long term holding can protect your margin while also taking high profit.

It is true the marriage can chocked up at the moment but if the investors plan is to invest for a long term and still keep on accumulating more Bitcoin using that DCA strategy to accumulate Bitcoin and continue hodling there will definitely be a moment of joy in the family and both couples by the time Bitcoin price start going high because his Bitcoin investment has yeild out enough profit. Everything is about planning and what you want for your self.

DCA investment strategy will definitely make your long term investment easier. If people who invest but do not know about DCA investment strategy are discussed about this investment strategy then they will definitely invest in this strategy excluding all investment strategies. DCA investment method is a simple and effective investment strategy. Investors do not need sufficient amount of money to invest in this strategy but if that investor has the ability to invest a certain amount of money regularly.

If you are a new investor then surely this investment strategy will work for you. You just continue to invest in this strategy consistently and at some point you will realize for yourself how positive this strategy has been for you. When you look at your total investment after a long period of time, you will be amazed at how much you have invested even with small investments.

I think you are doing right. Beginners should practice reading more than initially posting or creating tropics. Your discussion should be fluent according to the subject of any thread. You should read the content of seniors discussions about this thread and prepare yourself accordingly. This thread basically recommends buying and holding long-term bitcoin dips, and logically. Even the detailed discussion about the DCA method which is helpful advice for your investment. DCA is a method of depositing bitcoin that is universal strategy for people of all walks of life, rich and poor. Click on the link below to know more about DCA.
https://dcacryptocalculator.com

I don't know how you escape those sensations, especially once you get towards having had invested 1 or 2 cycles and maybe even you had made some extra purchases along the way and especially if the BTC price ends up going up after you had gotten a pretty decent stake into it (of course BTC prices going up is not guaranteed).. but even if you got into bitcoin in late 2017 or even into 2018.. you might start to feel like you have enough or too much.. even if you still have not reached fuck you status.

Let's say that in 2017 your income was around $30k per year, and maybe in the last 7 years your income has gone up to $40k per year, and maybe your expenses had gone from $20k to $25k per year, so that would mean that your monthly disposable income would have been between about $800 and $1,250 per month, so maybe you could have had bought somewhere between $100 to 300 per week of bitcoin and you also might have had some opportunties to have had been able to buy some dips too.  So even if we describe a fairly middle of the road case of your having had invested around $200 per week in DCA since November 1, 2017, you would have had invested around $73.2k and you would have had accumulated around 6.4 BTC (currently valued at around $370k with the BTC spot price and around 2.4 k if we use the 200-WMA).    Let's also say that through the whole time, you had your emergency fund and back up funds in place, and you had been successful in managing all of that in the past 6.75 years or so.

You might consider those to not quite be fuck you status levels, but still start to feel that you have a lot of money invested into BTC as compared to your salary.. even getting to around 9x of your current salary based on the spot price and around 6x if we use the 200-WMA, and if you might have had did a few extra lump sum buys along the way (maybe you got some bonuses, or you came across some other money in the past nearly 6.75 years or so). Sometimes folks have difficulties dealing with their wealth going up so much in a fairly short period of time and also largely (or mostly) having that money in bitcoin... and you don't even need to use my exact numbers in order to be able to recognize and appreciate these kinds of possibilities.


I am not exactly saying what I would do or what I did do in my past more than 10.5 years investing into bitcoin, but there are inclinations to want to cash out some or all of it when you acquire a lot of wealth and the value of such wealth is fluctuating and even inevitably going to continue to fluctuate, even if you have not quite reached your goals, whether if you want to get to fuck you status of $800k, $1 million, $2million or some other number and if you value your wealth at spot price or the more conservative measure of the 200-WMA.


A week to get started by figuring out disposable income, but I would think that it might take a whole cycle to really get used to some of the investing matters and cashflow management matters, even though getting started within a week of deciding to does not seem unreasonable to me, and how much to get started with is a question of how much rather than whether to do it... so many folks could start out with small amounts if they are uncertain about details.. and then just work their way up as they might become more comfortable with the passage of time, and that could take several months or even years of study to really get to aggressive levels including if there might be issues in terms of fixing potentially bad (or sloppy) historical cash management practices.


Yep.. there are different levels of learners, and some folks might have had similar experiences that help them to learn faster, and in regards to cashflow management, some folks might have good historical practices and others have bad historical practices. and they might have to fix some of their practices or learn some new or improve some of their techniques in order to account for bitcoin's likely ongoing and inevitable volatility which means that they should not be planning to tap into bitcoin for any of their cashflow needs and so they have to figure out ways that the remaining of their cashflow and/or back up funds are in decent and sound order..


I doubt that your statement is true.  There can be ways of engaging in sound cash management practices and blindly DCAing into BTC, and still end up being successful.  So there may well not be any requirements to knowing BTC well in order to "be successful" in terms of making a lot of money or even being able to hold onto it for the long term too.


They can learn these things along the way, and tweak their practices.  Sure, I get the point that some knowledge is helpful, but probably the most important knowledge is attempting to individually tailor to their own circumstances, and yeah hopefully they can learn along the way or run various risks of losing all of their coins.. but if we are mostly referring to getting started, then I see no reason to figure out these kinds of matters in advance.. yeah sure, there has to be some initial sourcing of coins whether on an exchange or going through some person that is known or someone who is referenced, yet there could be a variety of ways to get started and sometimes geographical limitations or perhaps some needs to learn other ways to source coins, even if the getting started might have ended up being a bit rushed.. depending on individual circumstances...

Let's say that a person finds out about bitcoin from a relative (a cousin or something that s/he trusts), and figures s/he needs to get started right away, and so maybe the first 1-2 months, he works out an agreement that the cousin buys the coins and holds the coins.. and then during that time, the person figures how to set up his/her own bitcoin accounts. Those might not be unreasonable ways of getting started to get price exposure to bitcoin, yet the ways of getting started are somewhat individually tailored based on circumstances then in front of the beginner who is trying to figure out how to get started.


"Always" is pretty strong language.... but hey whatever.  You do you.  We can hold something up as the preference or the gold standard, but it might not be very practical for some people to start out with self-custody.. maybe even think of a 70 year old who might not be very technologically savy, yet who might want to get some bitcoin price exposure.

The inability to understand the underlying layers of bitcoin may turn some investors away from prudence. The competition to acquire wealth quickly can lead to the trap of speculative wealth for new investors. The scam is so pervasive that its first trap is a get rich quick scheme.

But bitcoin investment base takes you a stable level and is a prudent approach to a solid base. It does not lure you into risky get rich quick schemes but accelerates the growth of profits with your capital. By conducting a DCA strategy at regular intervals bitcoin tendency to accumulate can help create that solid layer. In bitcoin volatile market system this approach can greatly reduce the impact of volatility. The size of your bitcoin stash is going to be significantly modest with the effect of long-term management which entices more profits.

For some time now I have been silently engaged in reading through this thread and without actually posting my thoughts, I have just scrolled through a few of the pages here in a bid to grasp as much of the content as I could. Honestly, I still haven’t a clue as to what I’d even add to the discussion yet since I’m also struggling just to understand what is being talked about. It is already inside my lifin my mind that, before I begin to share my opinion or give my inputs, I want to be well informed on these things and the discussions that surround them.

You're right here. To the best of my knowledge, Bitcoin has been the best investment so far but it doesn't mean that there isn't any other investment that is successful in streamlining. Let's put aside the knowledge we have known so far in Bitcoin and be realistic as a layman here. When investing, normally, people want to diversify because they doubt that just investing in one thing alone for a long period is much risky. They figuring the positive and negative consequences that may occur. If the investment doesn't go out right what would be their faith for all those long periods?

In the real world, what truly increasing a persons net worth is an assets, not his income. And it is only the asset invested in that can make him wealthy including Bitcoin and other assets. If an investor wants to be rich and if his financial capability is stable then he needs to diversify into other assets not Bitcoin alone.

Well spoken mate and I love the quote. Do you know that it is logical if you have been accumulating and holding Bitcoin for several years (at least 5 years), yes the potential odds are there that they will make a good profit because Bitcoin is higher in price in the long term. And i have see people with the age of 50+ as mentioned taking super and greater risk in aggressiveness and diversification because time starts to get behind them and it freaks them out. Investment is all about risk if an investor chooses to diversify then it is worth it but if he believe more in Bitcoin he can invest in bitcoin more than any other asset.

Wonderful!

weekly regular buying which is DCA is to strategically for only beginner but for all both new and old investor. when explaining make I clear for clear and precise.

yea you are right. the problem most newbies face is the inability to endure long term investment, they are easily tempted to make some little profit from the ups and downs of the market, and may be driven to make wrong decision by selling their bitcoin holding due to a temporary market fluctuations, and may make a wrong decision of investing in alt/shitcoin and later regret after a massive dump without rise because that is definitely what's gonna happen.

it is true that you don't want newbies to loose a dim from bitcoin, but what is their faith? because personal decision matters alot in bitcoin investment. when a person don't have a long term focus as you do, then surely your plans for such person may never be accomplished due to divers/different focus. thats why we keep repeating ourselves to make sure everyone here both newbies and old bitcoiner here to absorb every bit of the investment approach, and becomes a better investors and have thesame focus, even if all may not have thesame focus but majority will have.

it is true newbies have a big role to play in Bitcoin growth. the future of bitcoin is determined by newbies because if they are misinformed about bitcoin then they may get distracted by rumour and social media influencer and divert all their fund to other sources. where as bitcoin need more investors to keep it going up to add liquidity. and bitcoin also need miners to add transaction to mempool for fast transactions. I even see that miners also have great role to play in bitcoin longevity than HODLers because if there is no miner there will be no bitcoin. but as the case may be, there is no how miners will not be part of bitcoin journey, because that is the beauty of blockchain technology. in this case all both miners and HODLers have important role to play for the growth of bitcoin.

Just to semantically correct you.  There is a difference between buying lump sum and buying the dip.  Even if you are using a larger amount to buy the dip, you are still buying the dip. The mere fact that you buy a larger amount does not convert that kind of purchase into lump sum rather than buying the dip.

Lump sum refers to getting an extra amount of cash, and then deciding what to do with it.. which you have the three choices of how to divide an unexpected extra amount of cash which is 1) buy right away (which would be lump sum buying) 2) buy the dip (which would be a form of waiting) or 3) DCA (which is another form of structured waiting)... and of course, you don't have to employ all three and you can do them in part or ONLY choose to do one or two of them rather than all three.


Yep.. I understand that sometimes people will convolute the ideas of emergency fund and reserve fund, so then it can be a bit unclear about priorities or when or how to dip into the funds, so if your funds are in separate categories, then you would likely realize the priorities better and end up treating the different categories of funds differently, even though some various kinds of reserve funds might or might not have differing priorities, depending on your own priorities. 

A few days ago I posted some examples about how reserve funds might be put into different categories, and we might be able to see that some of those categories might be more important to us than other categories, yet all of those various kinds of reserve funds serve as a lesser priority than the emergency fund and would likely be used prior to getting to dipping into our emergency fund.. so as those various reserve funds might end up being used, we might well realize, way before needing to touch our emergency fund, that we are running out of reserve funds and we need to buckle down with our spending otherwise, we might have to dip into our emergency funds - and we don't want to every have to dip into our emergency funds absent an actual emergency that includes us already having had exhausted our various other reserve funds.


Sure, that is part of the reason that some of us talk about those kinds of cash management matters as being basic foundations for investing into something as volatile as bitcoin.  When an asset is volatile, cash management becomes more important, especially if you want to hold onto it and not end up losing money by holding it and not being prepared to hold it through potentially tough (and/or volatile) times.


Sure.  Many folks might try to take the easy road, and even presume that they know enough (including the basics), but sometimes we might not realize that we don't know as much as we need to know and that we might prevent a lot of problems by making sure that we learn the right things.. and sure, another thing might be that there can be difficulties finding the better information or sorting through good information and bad information or even being able to come to our own conclusions that are based on both experience and exposure to good information to sometimes put the information into practice too.. because sometimes we might know some things, but if we do not put what we know into practice, it might not make as much sense if it is just held in theoretical ways rather than putting it into practice.


Some of those folks want to use their bitcoin as their emergency fund, but then they might not realize that if they use their bitcoin as their emergency fund, then they might get caught having to dip into their bitcoin at a time (maybe sell some or maybe end up having to sell all of it) that is not convenient and/or might lead to losing a lot of money because they end up having to sell low rather than the opposite in which they should be buying low rather than selling low.


Surely, each person has to decide the level of risk that he is willing to take, and sure it could be the case that your friend ends up doing o.k., but surely, if he does not sufficiently protect himself, he might end up devolving into gambling rather than investing, and he might not even realize it - until some kind of a bad event takes place in which all of a sudden he might not have enough cash and he could have had easily prevented his bad situation by having better cashflow management... but yeah, every person has to figure out how to make those kinds of balances, including how much they are able to keep in their various backup funds without risking too much.  We likely realize that people who don't invest and who engage in fairly sloppy cashflow management may ONLY keep around 2-4 weeks worth of cash for any extra expenses that might come during the month, so there are many people who live on the edge like that, and sure some folks already have practices in which they keep more than 2-4 weeks worth of cash.  So it becomes more important to keep more back up funds when you have such a volatile asset such as bitcoin, and especially if you consider that your investment timeline is 4-10 years or longer.. so if you have a longer investment timeline, then you should want to make sure that you are not going to be tapping into that at any time that is other than your own choosing, which presumptively is 4-10 years or longer for any funds that you put into it, and some folks are considering timelines that might be 20-30 years or longer, especially young people. .and surely there could be some points in which even young people might have shorter timelines, including if they might be able to aggressively invest and reach some meaningful targets at times that end up being shorter than their initial longer timeline goals... so it seems better to plan longer timelines and to be more conservative, yet still being able to benefit if the investment (in this case bitcoin) goes better than expected and goals might be able to be reached faster than initially expected. .but in order to have those kinds of successes, it likely is better to have solid systems in place in which investing is taking place rather than gambling.


It could be the case that you are sorting through some of the terminology, and sometimes we might still be engaging in sound cashflow management practices, but just using different terms to describe what we are doing, and also sometimes we may or may not be keeping enough back up funds whether we call them emergency funds, reserve funds or float.. . and like you mentioned, there are ways that we can figure out what is our discretionary income, and we can make choices to hold back our discretionary income or even to increase our discretionary income by increasing our income or cutting our expenses, especially if we might have some various categories of goals that we would like to achieve, if we are saving up for some kind of a specific good or service that we want to purchase or if we might have some kind of an investment that we might want to make.. and surely even some investments (like a smartphone) might cost a lot and might depreciate in value, but some kinds of goods we might be able to use in order to increase our income or to cut our expenses, so sometimes even consumer good might serve some utility and even be considered a kind of worthy investment.

So yeah in regards to bitcoin, there can be some dilemmas that involve really being able to set aside the money that we are investing into bitcoin and expecting to not be able to use that money for many years - such as 4-10 years or longer and even having some understanding that it is possible that the bitcoin investment might not do well. .so we have to be prepared for a variety of scenarios and choosing our investment size so that we are still able to live our regular life while making reasonable and prudent choices about how much of our discretionary income to put into bitcoin within our own particular financial and psychological circumstances.

it would have been better, if Bitcoin is not classified in same category of cryptocurrencies with these Altcoins and shitcoins. Bitcoin is an Assets of its kind. They are just trying to coattail bitcoin without any real substance.

Shitcoins is shitcoins the only difference amongst them is that one can be more fucked up than another. Altcoins and shitcoins are bad choice of investment,  don't be persuaded especially newbies  with their juicy and unrealistic promises they offer ( quick profits). No need to look towards Altcoins and shitcoins because They lack solid fundamentals.

Sticking to bitcoin that is established and compete with other Assets is the real deal and good choice to invest in digital currency. Investing in  Bitcoin is the right suggestion we encourage individuals to partake because it has proven to be worthy on investing. Individuals have made good profit and created wealth for themselves because of bitcoin potentials and resilience.

In essence you seem to be backing off of your claim about bitcoin being at the peak of interest of people, and my assertion that even if your claim is supposedly true, it does not matter if people are interested if they are not in fact acting to actually buy bitcoin.

So part of my point is that they could not be at any kind of peak of interest if they are not actually buying bitcoin.

So I was claiming that what you said is not true.

People are not at peak of interest, and you were either misstating facts or misleading us regarding the actual dynamics of bitcoin, which is that some people are buying bitcoin, but the overwhelming majority of the world's population (aka normies) are getting left behind because they are continuing to fail and refuse to recognize the value of bitcoin and to take action to actually buy some rather than sitting around like bumps on a log and not getting the fuck off of zero.


Then if you know all of that, then why are you telling us that bitcoin is at the peak of interest.  What are you trying or wanting to say?


It doesn't matter.

It is what it is, and I am just suggesting to attempt to more accurately reflect the facts and don't be saying that bitcoin is at the top of people's interest when people are either apathetic about bitcoin and/or failing to act, so they are likely going to miss opportunities to buy bitcoin in current times and at these current pricesd because they are likely going to be buying bitcoin later and at likely to be much higher prices.


Yep.. it is more difficult when bitcoin is illegal in your country.. so yeah, your government is fucking the people of your country.. .. so I am not sure what you can do about that.  Those kinds of political matters are not necessarily resolved easily, and you have to figure out what you are going to do within your own options of what you are able to do..


ONe f the best ways to learn is to get started.  How are you going to fix people?  Tell them to wait and research. and prepare themselves... or tell them to get the fuck started... They have to figure out their basics, and I doubt that there is any need to tell anyone to wait, but instead figure their shit out and to get started with whatever level of discretionary income they have.

If they do not have discretionary income or they cannot figure out their discretionary income, then yeah, they might not be ready to get started, but if they have discretionary income then they can get started and learn as they go.  If they cannot figure out a way to make sure they don't lose their bitcoin, then you believe that waiting and researching is going to help them?  I think that is dumb advice, and the best advice is get started right away and figure out your details so you don't lose money... It is up to people to figure out their details, including how to manage their cashflows and one of the motivators to managing cashflows would be to invest into something like bitcoin.. and yeah, there are dumb people and people who like to gamble and don't know the difference between gambling and investing . but what we going to do about that?  Tell them to wait and gamble later rather than sooner..   I still doubt that waiting is a good strategy, but hey, you do you if you believe that you want to continue to tell newbie bitcoiners to wait rather than to get started.


Each of us need to engage in our own level of critical thinking skills in order to sort good information from bad information and to figure out how to manage our finances and our psychology... and likely if we manage our finances well then our psychology will end up being in a better place as compared with if we put systems in place that are bad ways of managing our finances..


Well maybe a solution is to start with $10 rather than starting with $200?  But anyhow, you might be talking about position size rather than suggesting that waiting is going to be an appropriate strategy.  I am not suggesting not to do research, but instead I am also suggesting get the fuck started rather than waiting, which you seem to be suggesting.. but hey, whatever do what you like and continue to tell people to wait rather than telling them to get started.

By the way, whether you tell people to wait or not, most of them are not going to do shit.. . so I would think there should be some interest in getting people to do something rather than not doing anything, and part of the reason that we have 99% of the world's population not invested or underinvested into bitcoin is because they are not acting to buy bitcoin, but instead waiting or not doing anything or not even knowing about bitcoin, so anyone who knows about bitcoin should be taking action to get off of zero.. and maybe they can figure out a way to get 5% to 25 % into bitcoin, but still they gotta get off zero and into bitcoin first before they are able to get some realistic ideas about how to reach some kind of an accumulation target, and it can take years and years (and maybe a whole cycle or two or more) to reach a reasonable bitcoin investment target, so why wait to get started?

Fuck off with your attempts to squeeze shitcoin discussions into a bitcoin thread, and in your first post you were ambiguous and vague, while at the same time proclaiming that you were not trying to persuade anyone about whether or not to buy any shitcoins, while at the same time trying to proclaim both that 1) some altcoins are not shitcoins and 2) some shitcoins are less shitty than others, with your attempt to slide that scammy smokescreen project of ethereum as if it were some kind of a better shitcoin because of its supposed market cap that is also built upon a scam in which we cannot even verify the supply, so how are you going to know its actual market cap if you cannot even verify its supply.


Good you admit that bitcoin is the best, so why not leave it at that, instead of trying to pump sum nonsense and get some folks to agree with you about that piece of crap known as ethereum?


So you want to leverage ethereum becuase it has been around for a while?  You are still in a bitcoin thread, so sure you are free to do what you like, but you are still trying to come into a bitcoin thread and pump a shitcoin while supposedly proclaiming that you were not intending to do that.  So take your lack of focus shitcoin peddling to some other thread.. there are threads and sections for that, but no, instead you want to lure some bitcoiners into your belief that ethereum isn't so bad.. and it is almost as good as bitcoin.. and it is better than other shitcoins..  and there is a shitcoin ranking system and  blah blah blah baloney.


It most likely is wrong, but who fucking cares?  It is off topic, and you are trying to suggest that some shitcoins are less shitty than others based on your ability to either trade with them or gamble with them in order to make more bitcoin.  Whether it is true or not about your ability to trade or gamble with shitcoins to make more bitcoin, it is off topic, because this is a bitcoin thread, and neither a shitcoin thread or a which shitcoin is less shitty thread or a what if I fuck around with shitcoins to make more bitcoin thread.


Sure, maybe you are getting closer to talking about bitcoin, but it still seems like a slippery slope in terms of leading us more and more off topic to be trying to suggest that there might be some shitcoins that are less shitty that can help you earn more bitcoin, and in that regard, you are going to want to mention your various systems to figure out which shitcoin is less shitty and where is that going to lead us?  Talking about 10s of thousands of various shitcoins rather than sticking to the topic of this thread, namely bitcoin.

 

It is good that you recognize bitcoin as the best of monies or the best place to store value out of various crypto.. but still where are you proposing to take this thread, and you believe that you end up being somewhat on topic since the thread seems to be questioning when to buy or sell bitcoin?.. but then at the same time, you are wanting to suggest putting that value into shitcoins rather than the more obvious topic of the thread which would be dollars or some fiat. and yeah, some folks might argue that dollars and/or various fiats are no better than shitcoins, but it still seems to be another topic to bring various shitcoins in to the mix of the discussion of this thread.