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And how can the world that is contained within it corruption, destruction, injustice, and evil be paradise?
So let's corrupt, destruct, add sectarian justice and spread more evil? Is that your goal?
Making a Paradise here relies on all of us, not in your imaginary friend.
Edit:
I also see you didn't understand what I said.
When I refer to the strange "Jesus-Mo" link, I'm referring to such a stupid statement as "Muhammad suffered", this is hijacking Jesus' legend, Muhammad suffered nothing, made others suffer.
And the lawyer part, is that you SOUND like a lawyer defending a psychopath with the usual "he had a difficult childhood" argument.
Then this:
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We know the benefits of milk but camel urine, maybe site below can clarify
Let me clarify to you; urine is a known "treatment" to psoriasis and other skin problems in topic application: this means directly in the affected skin. It does absolutely nothing, but nausea and spikes of salt in the system, to drink it.
Camel milk has absolutely no effect on healing anything, is just a plain regular milk, the only thing it "heals" is hunger. Your claims are pure snake oil.
About paradise it seems we have different understanding about it. In Islam, paradise does not contain any of the four things mentioned. There is where one will have absolute peace and contentment, no backbiting and no jealousy. There are many descriptions of paradise that can be found in Quran and Hadith, this is one of them.
"Gardens of perpetual residence, which they will enter, beneath which rivers flow. They will have therein whatever they wish. Thus does Allah reward the righteous -" (16:31)
http://quran.com/16/31
But of course it is not for free, this world is a test and only who passes it is worthy of paradise.
"Or do you think that you will enter Paradise while such [trial] has not yet come to you as came to those who passed on before you? They were touched by poverty and hardship and were shaken until [even their] messenger and those who believed with him said,"When is the help of Allah ?" Unquestionably, the help of Allah is near." (2:214)
http://quran.com/2/214
Doing corruption, destruction, injustice and evil are against teachings of Islam and who does any of them will only help one reach hell instead of paradise.
As for the last point I stand with my explanation, you dont have to agree if you dont want to.
Camel milk and urine do not sound medicinal today but 1430 years ago people dont have much to go by and Muslims believe anything that Allah or Muhammad (peace be upon him) has commanded to do is for our own good. We know the benefits of milk but camel urine, maybe site below can clarify
http://islamqa.info/en/83423
http://islamqa.info/en/83423
.....
I agree with the last point, dialogue between Muslim and non-Muslim can broaden up perspective in search of solutions to the problems that we are seeing today and working together is better than by oneself. Moreover it can also relieve tensions and misunderstandings between different people of different religions.
And don't forget those who are of no religion, such as I, those whom do not qualify as "people of the book", those who are utter infidels, kafir, by the tenets of your creeds, and all of what that means, to the various sects and subdivisions of your religion.I agree with the last point, dialogue between Muslim and non-Muslim can broaden up perspective in search of solutions to the problems that we are seeing today and working together is better than by oneself. Moreover it can also relieve tensions and misunderstandings between different people of different religions.
There is very little misunderstanding on my part on these matters, but I do agree with you that there is in the world much misunderstanding, central to it is your animosity toward your traditional and historical enemies, those evil Jooooeees. Much misunderstanding is fomented and much hate is kept alive by selectively using parts of old religious tracts, often about this or that piece of land being "holy". That is of course total nonsense, there is no piece of land with attributes holier than another, because there is no such thing as "holy".
It is a hollow shell, with no meaning whatsoever. Oh, and by the way, neither Christians nor Jews have any comparable evil to your splintered sects which follow Sayd Qutb.
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The Qur'an uses the word kufr to denote people who cover up or hide realities. The Qur'an uses this word to identify those who denied Allah's favors by not accepting His Dominion and Authority. Kufr thus is an antonym for iman or disbelief in Allah and a kafir is a non-believer.
Source and more infohttp://sunnahonline.com/library/beliefs-and-methodology/87-types-of-kufr-disbelief
Kafir is not a word one can easily be thrown around, it is like saying a person is not going to paradise. Whether a person deserves heaven or hell, that is not for humans to decide. And saying kafir to another Muslim is not to be taken lightly as shown in Hadith below.
"Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "If a man says to his brother, O Kafir (disbeliever)!' Then surely one of them is such (i.e., a Kafir). " (Sahih Bukhari)
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/78/130
"central to it is your animosity toward your traditional and historical enemies"
What I wrote does not entail any animosity to the Jews at all. I just mentioned that so people would try to look into news source outside of the mass media.
"Oh, and by the way, neither Christians nor Jews have any comparable evil to your splintered sects which follow Sayd Qutb."
If you want to point to Al-Qaeda, what they did to US during 9/11 attack that caused almost 3000 death of innocents was wrong and is condemned. I dont know what measurement that you use for "evilness", if the number of death of innocents in a single event to be the measurement then what US did to either Hiroshima or Nagasaki was far more evil. 90,000166,000 and 39,00080,000 estimated deaths caused by the nuclear bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki respectively.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
And now which religion had influenced on this atrocity? certainly not Islam. I dont think Christianity or Judaism has anything to do with this either.
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If peace-ability is the benchmark for a religion then there is only one true religion and the Buddha is his prophet.
I would argue if there is a god which created this whole universe and maintain it, it is natural to think god has much higher authority than us to decide what religion anybody should have. I would argue more that god has the upmost authority to decide over anything.The issue is that there are a lot of different religions out there that claim what they believe in is the true religion that came from god.
If there is a god and if there is a true religion out of the many, what do you think the criteria that should be taken in picking out the right religion?
And if you have time please watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5eXu2yZZuk
The two speakers go through intellectual thought process to arrive at the existence of god and discuss about the purpose of life.
I thought about this video while writing response to you, they provide in the video much better arguments, have much broader perspective compared to me and will give much better explanation than I ever could.
So much effort into defending Islam... 
Defend what has no defense is a hard task, isn't it, Mr. Imam?
Every Muslim has the responsibility of delivering the message of Islam to others. Some may accept, some may not, and some dont even want to consider it. Of course it is not going to be easy.Defend what has no defense is a hard task, isn't it, Mr. Imam?
Since I joined this thread you have been making wild claims and I am putting them here just for my reference and other readers. List below is ordered chronologically.
1 ) Claiming I dont know the history of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)
You DON'T know the History and defend Mo just because you were told to.
2 ) Claiming so many quotes in Hadeeth and Quran telling prophet is a violent person
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Where do you get your story that says the prophet is a violent person?
I would fill this thread with so many quotes that the database would crash!
Just read the Hadeeth and Quran...
3 ) Claiming Islam condone terrorism
Don't get fooled by "just terrorists", Islam DOES condone with such practices. And you can count by the fingers of a single hand how many Muslims are against those violent actions...
There are 2 billion Muslims on this earth, good luck with that. See last point for islamic view on terrorism.4 ) Claiming there are thousands of hadeeths that say prophet is violent person
Need more? There are THOUSANDS! Muhammad was but a violent psychopath suffering from schizophrenia.
"Need more?" Well yes, I am still waiting.I am still waiting for the thousands hadeeths that you claim telling the prophet was a violent person.
5 ) Claiming Quran was not written in arabic and claiming arabic was invented in 9th century
That's a very nice excuse, EXCEPT that what we call "Arabic" wasn't invented up to IX Century in current Yemen.
So the excuse that you should read a book, originally written in Assyrian, dictated by the VII Century in Arabic is a bold point.
Arabic has existed well before 7th centurySo the excuse that you should read a book, originally written in Assyrian, dictated by the VII Century in Arabic is a bold point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Arabic
The Quran itself has a claim that it was sent in arabic.
"Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand" (12:2)
http://quran.com/12/2
The Quran itself has a claim that it was sent in arabic.
"Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand" (12:2)
http://quran.com/12/2
6 ) Claiming narrations from Al-Tabari can be found in Sahih Bukhari or Muslim
About Al-Tabari, you will find the same or similar texts at Bukhari or Muslim.
While this may be true for authentic hadiths but the wording seems to say every narration in it can be found in Sahihs.And so my response which I have not recieve answers to.
Show me where the two narrations that you quoted before from Al-Tabari can be found in Sahih Bukhari or Muslim.
Info on Al-Tabari:http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.de/2010/08/islamophobes-think-before-you-quote.html
Well as it said in the url, think before you quote his work.
Well as it said in the url, think before you quote his work.
7 ) Claiming Muhammad (peace be upon him) suffered nothing and made others suffer. Also claiming "hijacking Jesus' legend".
When I refer to the strange "Jesus-Mo" link, I'm referring to such a stupid statement as "Muhammad suffered", this is hijacking Jesus' legend, Muhammad suffered nothing, made others suffer.
For anyone who is open minded and want to have more understanding of Islam and the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon) please read history of the prophet. And a very concise version of this you can find in link below.http://www.inter-islam.org/Seerah/iSeerah.html
And see what non-Muslims that have actually studied the history of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) have written
https://www.alislam.org/library/links/eyes.html
8 ) Claiming Muhammad (peace be upon him) to be ancestor of europeans
To the end, the most funny thing about it, is to see Arabs following so blindly a white guy, and they gave relevance enough for we to know he was white up to write it down. They should be worshiping Europeans, Europeans are of Muhammad's race, they aren't.
9 ) Claiming Muslims are lying. Well this is just convenient, anything Muslims say you can easily refute them by calling them a liar.
Was just reading an interesting text about Islam. Deception on Islam, a sort of dictionary. After a terrorist attack you may listen Muslims saying things like "Islam doesn't support the killing of innocents" or "Islam doesn't support terrorism"... well... if you can interpret this as a Muslim they aren't lying, if you interpret this as a rational human being, they are casting big fat lies.
So how come they are lying but telling the truth?
A: They twist the meaning on secondary words.
When they say "Islam doesn't support the killing of innocents", they are talking about their own definition of innocents, not the one you usually give. For innocents they actually mean Muslims, as all non-Muslims are Kaffir and therefore not innocent. And even within Muslims they may mean their own sect of Islam, as they consider other Muslims heretic for some reason.
When they say "Islam doesn't support terrorism", goes around the same. They don't interpret "terrorism" as we do, for them it is "Jihad", "fighting in the ways of Allah".
Being a liar is one way to get to hell according to Hadith belowSo how come they are lying but telling the truth?
A: They twist the meaning on secondary words.
When they say "Islam doesn't support the killing of innocents", they are talking about their own definition of innocents, not the one you usually give. For innocents they actually mean Muslims, as all non-Muslims are Kaffir and therefore not innocent. And even within Muslims they may mean their own sect of Islam, as they consider other Muslims heretic for some reason.
When they say "Islam doesn't support terrorism", goes around the same. They don't interpret "terrorism" as we do, for them it is "Jihad", "fighting in the ways of Allah".
"'Abdullah reported Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) as saying: Truth leads one to Paradise and virtue leads one to Paradise and the person tells the truth until he is recorded as truthful, and lie leads to obscenity and obscenity leads to Hell, and the person tells a lie until he is recorded as a liar." (Sahih Muslim)
http://sunnah.com/muslim/45/134
And below was my post of Islams' stance on killing of innocents.
1 verse from the Quran
"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors." (5:32)
http://quran.com/5/32
Killing of one innocent person irregardless of religion, belief, gender or race is forbidden in Islam and it is equivalent to killing the whole of mankind according to the verse above.
More verses from the Quran on this topic
http://english.islammessage.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?articleId=931
So dont hate Islam for atrocities of some Muslim groups as Islam clearly forbids anything that involves killing of innocent persons.
I put bold for emphasis. There are also other passages in the Quran and Hadeeths that condemn acts of terrorism. Please refer Fatwa on Terrorism for more."Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors." (5:32)
http://quran.com/5/32
Killing of one innocent person irregardless of religion, belief, gender or race is forbidden in Islam and it is equivalent to killing the whole of mankind according to the verse above.
More verses from the Quran on this topic
http://english.islammessage.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?articleId=931
So dont hate Islam for atrocities of some Muslim groups as Islam clearly forbids anything that involves killing of innocent persons.
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Fatwa on Terrorism and Suicide Bombings is a 600-page (Urdu version), 512-page (English version) Islamic decree by scholar Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri which demonstrates from the Quran and Sunnah that terrorism and suicide bombings are unjust and evil, and thus un-Islamic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa_on_TerrorismDownload link
http://www.spittoon.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/FATWA-on-Terrorism-and-Suicide-Bombings.pdf
And literal meaning of jihad is 'struggle'.
As always Muslims find every barbaric deed of Muhammad "justified". Ever wonder that we don't have the other side of the story, mainly because Muhammad killed them?
And how is camel urine and milk working for medicine? Good?...
Often, specially with Western born Muslims, we see some "Jesus-Muhammad" link at their heads. They say about a murderous warlord things like "he suffered a lot"... yeah right! That just sounds like a lawyer defending his client with "he had a difficult childhood".
About Al-Tabari, you will find the same or similar texts at Bukhari or Muslim.
Actually anything is better than your notions of "Paradise"...
Make Paradise HERE, don't get lured by the ultimate scam, the scam you will just find out you were scammed once you are dead and nothing can be done about it.
"Ever wonder that we don't have the other side of the story, mainly because Muhammad killed them?"And how is camel urine and milk working for medicine? Good?...
Often, specially with Western born Muslims, we see some "Jesus-Muhammad" link at their heads. They say about a murderous warlord things like "he suffered a lot"... yeah right! That just sounds like a lawyer defending his client with "he had a difficult childhood".
About Al-Tabari, you will find the same or similar texts at Bukhari or Muslim.
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For if there is nothing after death you have nothing to lose or gain but if there is afterlife, what will be your fate on that time?
Actually anything is better than your notions of "Paradise"...
Make Paradise HERE, don't get lured by the ultimate scam, the scam you will just find out you were scammed once you are dead and nothing can be done about it.
Wow! Such speculation! There is speculation subforum in Bitcointalk you know.
I am still waiting for the thousands hadeeths that you claim telling the prophet was a violent person.
Camel milk and urine do not sound medicinal today but 1430 years ago people dont have much to go by and Muslims believe anything that Allah or Muhammad (peace be upon him) has commanded to do is for our own good. We know the benefits of milk but camel urine, maybe site below can clarify
http://islamqa.info/en/83423
I do not understand what you mean by "Jesus-Muhammad" link. Jesus or Isa (peace be upon him) was one of the messenger of Allah and Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the final messenger of Allah.
And no need to involve lawyer here, just read his life story. Site below is a very concise seerah if you dont have time.
http://www.inter-islam.org/Seerah/iSeerah.html
Show me where the two narrations that you quoted before from Al-Tabari can be found in Sahih Bukhari or Muslim.
I did not mention paradise and certainly I am not trying to scam anybody. If what Quran is saying is the truth then the truth will reveal itself, I am just trying to give people motivation to read it, try to understand and be open minded. Forcing anybody to accept any religion is prohibited in Islam.
"There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing." (2:256)
http://quran.com/2/256
And how can the world that is contained within it corruption, destruction, injustice, and evil be paradise?
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If you are preaching hate on a religion you are also sowing hatred to the people that believe in it.
Show me in the bible where it states it is allowed to hate other religions. I had a conversation with a couple of Jehovah Witnesses about 3 weeks ago and it was one of the friendliest conversations for one and a half hour I have had with strangers. I did not feel any hatred from them and they even gave me a copy of a bible for free.
Show me in the bible where it states it is allowed to hate other religions. I had a conversation with a couple of Jehovah Witnesses about 3 weeks ago and it was one of the friendliest conversations for one and a half hour I have had with strangers. I did not feel any hatred from them and they even gave me a copy of a bible for free.
Hating a religion isn't necessarily preaching hate on the people of that religion. But it might be.
Consider the Revelation where Jesus says to the church in Ephesus, "But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."
Perhaps St. Paul never said, "I hate such and such religion." But he certainly showed it by vigorously trying to convert people from all other religions to Christianity. Barely did he preach against a particular religion. Probably never did he use the words, "I hate ...," but you can't get much stronger hate for religions at the same time there was love and hope for the people of those religions. His actions showed it.
Further, when the people of any religion that is not the truth, will not turn from the falsehood, they have become a part of it. So, it is not the people that are being hated. It is the religion in them that is being hated.
Consider war... Vietnam. Our guys finally hated "them" because they were killing our guys. Perhaps we were not justified in being there, but there was hate on both sides. The creed of the soldier is to do what it takes to win the goal. This is very much like the theme of every religious creed. The fact that their are friendships made between enemies at times, and the fact that there are peaceful negotiations being done at times, doesn't lessen the hate at other times.
Christianity has been at war with Islam for hundreds of years. Many Muslims have converted to Christianity. There is no hate for them. It is for the religion that there is hate. But if they persist ...
EDIT: Jehovah's Witness is a Christian denomination, not a separate religion.
Preaching with love and hate at the same time? I dont see how that is possible. And does this St. Paul refers to Paul the Apostle? If yes, I have one questions about him. He was born after the time of Jesus but why did he have so much authority on the bible? The bible is supposed to be the teachings of Jesus but 14 books out of 27 are attributed to Paul.
"Further, when the people of any religion that is not the truth, will not turn from the falsehood, they have become a part of it."
What is the point of preaching if people will not turn from falsehood?
"The creed of the soldier is to do what it takes to win the goal. This is very much like the theme of every religious creed."
Woah, that is not in Islam belief.
"But if they persist ..."
What will happen?
This may just be me, but your hate preaching is not bringing a good picture of christianity.
I made that distinction because I always see people putting Jehovah Witness under bad light but they were friendly to me. When people say bad things about one group it builds up negative preconception people have on that group, the same thing is happening to Islam today in the media. If any Muslim does bad thing, Islam comes up. You rarely see this happening with other religions or beliefs. Now we have some new voculabularies such as "islamist", "jihadist", and so on that are used when some Muslims do atrocities, even when people hearing the word "terrorist" they will think of an arab with beard and turban fledging ak-47. The media keeps on doing this to damage peoples view on Islam.
1 word: ISIS
should I say more ?
1 verse from the Quranshould I say more ?
"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors." (5:32)
http://quran.com/5/32
Killing of one innocent person irregardless of religion, belief, gender or race is forbidden in Islam and it is equivalent to killing the whole of mankind according to the verse above.
More verses from the Quran on this topic
http://english.islammessage.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?articleId=931
So dont hate Islam for atrocities of some Muslim groups as Islam clearly forbids anything that involves killing of innocent persons.
1 word: ISIS
should I say more ?
It will always return to this with Islam. If not the 1984 Israeli murders in the Olympics, if not the 1993 attempt to bomb the World Trade Center, if not a copilot of a 747 yelling "Allah Akbar" as he drove that jet into the sea, if not the 2001 atrocities, if not the beheadings, if not a "Soldier of Allah" killing at Ft. Hood, Texas, if not yet another "Muslim convert" beheading a woman in Oklahoma, if not ISIS.....should I say more ?
Over and over and over. This becomes the theme, the central narrative of Islam.
I don't HATE Islam, but in the absence of strong and near unanimous FATWAs from the religious leaders against these barbarians in their midst, I cannot respect it one bit. It is unworthy of respect. Does not matter if some believe it is good, the best, the word of god, blah blah blah.
Certainly many consider that these minority violent fragments of Islam are quietly and passively tolerated by the greater societies of Islam, and are often funded under the table by many who would not openly admit it.
Evidence points in that direction. We know many in Saudi Arabian supported the 911 hijackers, we know Pakistanis celebrated with street parties at 911, we know that ISIS and many other violent groups are supported monetarily by other Muslims.
....
Putting an effort to study Quran and Sunnah by oneself can avoid a Muslim from following a bad mullah or imam or fall into deviant teachings.
......
The historical evidence does not show that the Muslim religion contains sufficient clarity to adequately safeguard against what you call "deviant teachings." That is I think what others on this thread have been trying to explain to you. The books themselves can and do support the "deviant teachings".Putting an effort to study Quran and Sunnah by oneself can avoid a Muslim from following a bad mullah or imam or fall into deviant teachings.
......
To adequately comprehend the problem, it is best that a Muslim discuss such a matter with reasonably knowledgeable non-Muslims, whether they be Christian or atheist or something else. In many cases they will be far less biased than your own mullahs and such and will see things clearly.
"This becomes the theme, the central narrative of Islam."
If you are following mainstream media you will likely only hear this because it sells, unfortunately. And second, put your tinfoil hat on. Mass media has agendas against Islam and large portion of them are being controlled by jews.
http://theunjustmedia.com/Media/Six%20Jewish%20Companies%20Control%2096%25%20of%20the%20World%E2%80%99s%20Media.htm
As an example, if you watched US mainstream news about Israel and Palestine, Israel is potrayed as victim and Palestinian as terrorist. Thankfully, internet has given people more access to alternative news source.
It is nice to hear that you do not hate Islam. There are fatwas against groups such as ISIS but they are not heard of because of the reason above. There is also a book, Fatwa on Terrorism which condemn act of terrorism and suicide bombing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa_on_Terrorism
"Certainly many consider that these minority violent fragments of Islam are quietly and passively tolerated by the greater societies of Islam, and are often funded under the table by many who would not openly admit it."
I have never met any Muslim that tolerate these violent groups. "often funded under the table" I dont know about that, if you have reliable source please share.
"Evidence points in that direction. We know many in Saudi Arabian supported the 911 hijackers, we know Pakistanis celebrated with street parties at 911, we know that ISIS and many other violent groups are supported monetarily by other Muslims."
I dont know any of that, please give some sources if you have.
Allah has sent the Quran as guidance for human beings but there are some people with corruption in their hearts that want to deviate from the guidance of Quran for their own gain, status, ego, agendas, desires, etc. One likely cannot understand fully the message of the Quran and a more knowledgeable person is needed to clarify it. It happens that the person that one can only refer to belongs to a deviant teaching. As such one must put effort in understanding the religion by oneself to avoid following it and also Muslims are commanded by Allah to ask Him for help and guidance everytime we make prayer.
"It is You we worship and You we ask for help. Guide us to the straight path -" (1:5-6)
http://quran.com/1
I agree with the last point, dialogue between Muslim and non-Muslim can broaden up perspective in search of solutions to the problems that we are seeing today and working together is better than by oneself. Moreover it can also relieve tensions and misunderstandings between different people of different religions.
Hate of people may be bigotry. But hate of their religion might be appropriate and right, if that is the way you feel about it.
The idea of Christianity is to love all people, but to hate anything that turns the people away from the true God.
It is true that hatred of anything corrupts the person and weakens his life. But, it still happens.
If you are preaching hate on a religion you are also sowing hatred to the people that believe in it.The idea of Christianity is to love all people, but to hate anything that turns the people away from the true God.
It is true that hatred of anything corrupts the person and weakens his life. But, it still happens.
Show me in the bible where it states it is allowed to hate other religions. I had a conversation with a couple of Jehovah Witnesses about 3 weeks ago and it was one of the friendliest conversations for one and a half hour I have had with strangers. I did not feel any hatred from them and they even gave me a copy of a bible for free.
Surely:
Assassinations:
Robbery:
Barbaric torture and killings:
Mercilessness to the disabled:
Need more? There are THOUSANDS! Muhammad was but a violent psychopath suffering from schizophrenia.
As I said in my first post in this thread my knowledge is very limited but I will try to clarify this matter with some information I found on the net. I will only touch on the hadeeths from authentic sources such as Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. And on Al-Tabari:Assassinations:
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Narrated Al-Bara bin Azib: Allah's Apostle sent a group of persons to Abu Rafi. Abdullah bin Atik entered his house at night, while he was sleeping, and killed him.
Sahih Bukhari 5:59:370
Sahih Bukhari 5:59:370
Robbery:
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Abu Sufyan and the horsemen of the Quraysh were returning from Syria following the coastal road. When Allahs Apostle heard about them he called his companions together and told them of the wealth they had with them and the fewness of their numbers. The Muslims set out with no other object than Sufyan and the men with him. They did not think that this raid would be anything other than easy booty.
Al-Tabari, Vol. 7, p. 29
Al-Tabari, Vol. 7, p. 29
Barbaric torture and killings:
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Narrated Anas: The Prophet cut off the hands and feet of the men belonging to the tribe of 'Uraina and did not cauterise (their bleeding limbs) till they died.
Sahih Bukhari 8:82:795
Sahih Bukhari 8:82:795
Mercilessness to the disabled:
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When a blind Jew became aware of the presence of the Messenger and the Muslims he rose and threw dust in their faces, saying, Even if you are a prophet, I will not allow you into my garden! I was told that he took a handful of dirt and said, If only I knew that I would not hit anyone else, Muhammad, I would throw it in your face. Sad rushed in and hit him on the head with his bow and split the Jews head open.
Al-Tabari, Vol. 7, p. 112, See Also Ishaq:372
Al-Tabari, Vol. 7, p. 112, See Also Ishaq:372
Need more? There are THOUSANDS! Muhammad was but a violent psychopath suffering from schizophrenia.
Quote
Tareekh at-Tabari was a voluminous text compiled by Imam Ibn Jarir at-Tabari (may Allah be pleased with him). Imam at-Tabari followed the classic methodology of early Islamic historians, a process which differed greatly from modern day historical writers. Islamic historians would simply compile all the known narrations about a certain event, regardless of how authentic or reliable each of those narrations were. They would copy the Isnads (chains of transmitters) into their books, in order that the Muhaditheen (scholars of Hadith) could determine which narration was Sahih/Hasan (authentic/good) and which was Dhaeef (weak) or even Mawdoo (fabricated). In other words, the historians compiled the narrations, and the Muhaditheen authenticated them.
Source and more information below:http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.de/2010/08/islamophobes-think-before-you-quote.html
Well as it said in the url, think before you quote his work.
In the first hadeeth above, read the next hadeeths for the reason of the assassination.
http://www.sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_5_59.php
Further explanation in the first paragraph below
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-ppPqzawIrIC&pg=PA204#v=onepage&q&f=false
As for the second hadeeth above
http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/quran-hadith-prophet-muhammad/refutation-uraina-tribe-men-killed-shepherd-allahs-messenger-2792
I hope that would give better understanding of the hadeeths.
You are claiming there are thousands hadeeths that says the prophet is violent, well bring at least one thousand more.
Since you are using hadeeths to make this claim, below are collection of hadeeths that describes the character of the prophet.
http://www.iqra.net/Hadith/sifat.php
And see what western scholars have written about Muhammad (peace be upon him)
http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=6054
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Sure, but you can do this because you read the book.
Isn't it said that Muslims should only read the "Holy Book" in the original language, which most do not know. They memorize and recite verses that the cannot understand, because they do not know the language. Since they must not read the book in other languages, the only actual knowledge they would have of it is from the local mullah?
This seems to be an extremely problematic premise for a culture. It is very reminiscent of the "Latin Mass" of Catholics, now abandoned.
That would make a population very subject to the whim and caprice of a bad mullah.
While it is true that a Muslim should always consult people that are more knowledgable in the issue of religion, every Muslim must make an effort to read the Quran with understanding. God has given human beings with the capacity of reason to apply them in our lives and to understand His revelations, to take lessons and to apply them. Although many Muslims do not speak arabic but there are translation of the Quran in many languages available. There is nothing in Islam that limit understanding of the Quran only through arabic language, only in our prayers must one recite the Quran in arabic.Isn't it said that Muslims should only read the "Holy Book" in the original language, which most do not know. They memorize and recite verses that the cannot understand, because they do not know the language. Since they must not read the book in other languages, the only actual knowledge they would have of it is from the local mullah?
This seems to be an extremely problematic premise for a culture. It is very reminiscent of the "Latin Mass" of Catholics, now abandoned.
That would make a population very subject to the whim and caprice of a bad mullah.
Another important source of knowledge for Muslims is the Sunnah which means way of the prophet. In the Quran it is commanded for every Muslim to pray and the details of prayer such as times of prayer, how to pray etc. are found in the Sunnah. Through the Sunnah, Muslims are also thought how to lead everydays lives such as how to conduct with people, manners, patience and so on.
Putting an effort to study Quran and Sunnah by oneself can avoid a Muslim from following a bad mullah or imam or fall into deviant teachings.
That's a very nice excuse, EXCEPT that what we call "Arabic" wasn't invented up to IX Century in current Yemen.
So the excuse that you should read a book, originally written in Assyrian, dictated by the VII Century in Arabic is a bold point.
So the excuse that you should read a book, originally written in Assyrian, dictated by the VII Century in Arabic is a bold point.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Arabic
The Quran itself has a claim that it was sent in arabic.
"Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand" (12:2)
http://quran.com/12/2
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i think we are not hate that religion , but we hate bad people / organization who hide behind that religion to make a mess in this world
I hate religion. No, let me rephrase that. I hate organized religion. A belief system held to oneself or imediate family that harms no other, I got no real problem with. Even if it's anti reality or just plain silly, it harms me not. Or as Thomas Jefferson said it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my legs.
But when two nasty elements come together, as they do in relgious organization(s), it gets ugly. Those elements being the lust for power and the claim of ultimate authority. Most religions, I daresay all religious organizations, have a greater or lesser degree of these elements. I actually tend to single out Christianity as it has had the greatest personal detriment to me. Islam is no different in that.
The most rabid fundamentalist is harmless without backers, followers, and sycophants. Religion breeds 'em like rabbits.
Human beings can be the best and the worst. My believe is that Islam can bring the best out of a person. In Islam we believe in absolute accountability, if you are not judged for what you have done in this world, you will be judged in the next life.
"That Day, the people will depart separated [into categories] to be shown [the result of] their deeds. So whoever does an atom's weight of good will see it, And whoever does an atom's weight of evil will see it." (99:6-8)
http://quran.com/99
If people really take this to heart, people will really try to be the best they can. And there are guidance and lessons in the Quran to nurture a person to be the best they can.
"We have certainly created man in the best of stature" (95:4)
http://quran.com/95/4
But important question remains, is Islam the truth?
For anybody with Jewish or Christian background, MisGoded is a good book to start with.
Quote
Bold in its premise and masterful in its execution, MisGoded by author, physician, and ordained minister Laurence B. Brown teases common threads in the complex world of organized religion from the tangled mass of religious misdirection. An earnest search for truth, this text unveils both the corruptions and commonalities of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam to fill the current void of intellectual discourse on the subject. For those readers who are intrigued but skeptical of organized religion, especially strict, literal interpretation of the Bible, this book articulates many of the questions readers have about religion, and poses others of its own. It provides a comprehensive, historically based analysis of documents, traditions and institutions. The central theme is to examine Judaism, Christianity, and Islam for truth in revelation, and trace the chain of revelation to its logical conclusion. Solicitous and precise, this text captures the essence of what it means to be a person of God.
The book is available free for download.http://leveltruth.com/?p=1214
And the second book in the series, Goded studies the case for Islam as the completion of Revelation. Also available free for download.
http://leveltruth.com/?p=1219
As for atheists or agnostics, maybe this story can give you something to think about.
http://www.haqislam.org/imam-abu-hanifah-and-the-atheist/
If there is nothing that can convince you that there is god, it is rational to assume that there is afterlife. For if there is nothing after death you have nothing to lose or gain but if there is afterlife, what will be your fate on that time? And if Islam is the truth, the life after death will be for eternity.
I hope it would give you some motivation in the search for the truth.
May Allah guide you all.
Quote
Where do you get your story that says the prophet is a violent person?
I would fill this thread with so many quotes that the database would crash!
Just read the Hadeeth and Quran...
I was looking at some of your posts in this thread, you were saying foul things about Islam. It is not the Islam I am thought and brought up with. Bring proof of what you are talking about Islam if it is the truth.
Hate is a bad thing. It corrupts the hearts and minds of those who entertain (use, do) it. But in the case of Islam, hate is totally appropriate.
That is straight up bigotry.We really need to stop hating each other because of our differences in religion, beliefs or anything. And just because some groups are doing atrocities, it is not justifiable to hate other people that are not involved or their beliefs. There are many issues in our lives that can be solved if we work together and put our differences aside. The money masters that are bringing corruption to this world are chilling right now and they love having people hating and fighting each other instead of them. It will be hard to bring change as they have so much control in the society including governments but if we are going to be divisive nothing can be changed.
That's the problem:
You DON'T know the History and defend Mo just because you were told to.
It was a harsh time? Yes but not only to Muslims, to all Middle East and Persia.
It was Justinian plague time, there were not only Muhammad but a lot of equally violent "prophets", war everywhere... But Mo wasn't anything near a good person.
How did you assert that I do not know the history of my own religion or the prophet?You DON'T know the History and defend Mo just because you were told to.
It was a harsh time? Yes but not only to Muslims, to all Middle East and Persia.
It was Justinian plague time, there were not only Muhammad but a lot of equally violent "prophets", war everywhere... But Mo wasn't anything near a good person.
Where do you get your story that says the prophet is a violent person?
It seems we read 2 different stories about the prophet.
What is your outlook or view on Israel?
Just on the matter of Israel and Palestine, what they are doing and what they want to do the people of Palestine are totally unacceptable. They have been trying to write Palestine off of the map through land expansions and merciless civilian killings. Really hoping for justice for the people of Palestine. Sweeden just recently recognized the state of Palestine, a move in the right direction towards peace in the region.Did you find any "islamic rulings on bitcoin?"
I am also curious, do you agree or disagree with this assertion? (which is from a linked blog not from anyone in this form)
Islam has to eradicate from its codex all notions of killing as a justified means to an end.
Bitcoin is a really new concept and complex as well to be understood. There have not been any views by islamic scholars on this matter. There are many opinions on the web but scholaristic views are the ones that should take precedent because those scholars have spent most of their lives studying the religion. I myself do not feel wholly comfortable with bitcoin since many trades involving bitcoin are prohibited in Islam such as drug trades, most prominently during silk road times and the anonymous nature of bitcoin can further thrive this kind of activities. Thus, I feel bitcoins success is somehow also supporting malevolent activities that thrive on bitcoin. On the other hand, I see the monetary system that are widely used now as a method of enslaving people. We really need a revolution in the monetary system and I believe bitcoin can bring that at least until honest and trustworthy people can dictate the direction current of monetary system which seems to be unlikely as of now.I am also curious, do you agree or disagree with this assertion? (which is from a linked blog not from anyone in this form)
Islam has to eradicate from its codex all notions of killing as a justified means to an end.
As for the that quote, teachings of Islam encompass every aspect of human lives and this includes the ethics of war. If another country attacks an islamic country, it has the right to fight back but have to stay within islamic rulings related to conducts of war. So to say killing cannot be justified is to let your land and your life be freely taken in the case of war. And to eradicate aspect of Islam or not accepting some parts of the Quran is the same as to go against what god has decreed. If the Quran is really from god, who are we to question what god has sent to us? He is the one that has created this universe and bring life to this earth. God sent prophets and revelations as guidance for human beings and god knows what is best for us.
I was just googling for islamic rulings on bitcoin and stumbled upon this thread. As a Muslim I feel the need to be involved in this conversation. Although my knowledge about my own religion is really limited, I hope I can clarify some of the negative perspectives about Islam that I am seeing here.
One that really caught my attention is this post. The book, Quran which I use for guidance in my life is also used by some to slander Islam hurts me.
Saying people hate Islam is a generalization.
Not everyone hates Islam.
Radical Islam.... That's what people hate.
Things like this are unacceptable:
Quran:
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
Plenty more:
http://dttj.blogspot.com/2010/08/intolerance-toward-non-muslims-in-quran.html
Interesting thing I found just googling "why hate Islam"... this list....
Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, Allah will consider you to be one of them. 5:51
The curse of Allah is on disbelievers. 2:89
Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers. 2:98
For disbelievers is a painful doom." 2:104
Allah will make disbelievers' miserable in this world and torture them forever after they die. 2:114
Disbelievers are losers. 2:121
The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
Allah says that you must keep fighting until there is no more persecution and everyone on earth is a Muslim. Then you can stop killing people. 2:193a
Intermarriage is forbidden. 2:221
Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. 3:28
Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim. 3:73
Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you. 3:118
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89
The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101
Do not choose disbelievers as friends. 4:144
Never help disbelievers. 28:86
The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers." 2:254
Non-muslims will be punished by Allah for their nonbelief. 3:19
We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151
Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers. (See 2:65-66) 4:47
If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91
Non-muslims are wrong doers. 5:45
Jews and Christians are evil-livers. 5:59
Those who deny Muhammad's revelations are like dogs. 7:176
Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 9:123
Allah hates disbelievers. 35:26
And then a comment...
https://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130429050316AAq2MOs
Islam has to eradicate from its codex all notions of killing as a justified means to an end. So long as this sort of 'code' exists the programming is allowed to be carried out by the mules. Then there are the cultural overtones that exacerbate the ability for rational people to accept 'Muslims' since so many practice in country's where people are treated like dirt, especially women. Finally, all religons have a egoist based condition that is problamatic. No prophet would espouse death and destruction much less treating people like dirt. It is the egoists who create these conditions and then hide their despicable behavior behind the cloak of 'religion' or religiosity to justify their actions.
I lean toward agreeing with the above part "eradicate from its codex all notions of killing as a justified means to an end". If you gave people a "holy book" with this stuff, then some percentage of wackos are simply going to act on it and feel they are justified. Like they are and have been doing.
There are 6,236 verses from the Quran and some people just pick and choose some sentences in the Quran that agree with their preconception without considering what other contents in the Quran are all about. Verses that are quoted above are not even properly translated, which is a disservice to the Quran or any other book for that matter, you can find proper Quran translation in book stores and there are even free apps for android and ios. Moreover, when you are quoting verse from the Quran many things you have to consider to fully understand them such as the historical contexts, the verses before and after, meaning of the verse or more information about it may also be available in another verses in the quran or in the prophetic traditions, target audiences during the revelation and so on.
The Quran was sent down to the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) verse by verse in duration of 23 years. In this 23 years many things happen, I wont go into the history but just want to say that that the prophet and his followers went through many hardships and sufferings to tell people about the revelation that was sent to the prophet by god. I really hope more people can give more respect to the Quran and prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) which are the guidance and example for 2 billions Muslims worldwide. When people slander the Quran or the prophet, it really hurt us Muslims to see the book and the person which we respect the most being degraded.
I dont know where you guys get your information about Islam but I would assume some get from media that only potrays muslims as "freedom hating jihadists" whatever that means. There are crazy people among the Muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheists etc., but it is unfair to paint one group or its system of belief with the same brush because of the actions of some people in that group. I would encourage anybody that sees only negative in Islam to consider looking the other side of the coin. Lets resolve any misunderstanding and focus our effort in fighting against the system that has opressed people into spiral of debt, that is why we have Bitcoin eh?
If anybody has questions about Islam I would love to provide with information that I could find.
One that really caught my attention is this post. The book, Quran which I use for guidance in my life is also used by some to slander Islam hurts me.
Saying people hate Islam is a generalization.
Not everyone hates Islam.
Radical Islam.... That's what people hate.
Things like this are unacceptable:
Quran:
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
Plenty more:
http://dttj.blogspot.com/2010/08/intolerance-toward-non-muslims-in-quran.html
Interesting thing I found just googling "why hate Islam"... this list....
Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, Allah will consider you to be one of them. 5:51
The curse of Allah is on disbelievers. 2:89
Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers. 2:98
For disbelievers is a painful doom." 2:104
Allah will make disbelievers' miserable in this world and torture them forever after they die. 2:114
Disbelievers are losers. 2:121
The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
Allah says that you must keep fighting until there is no more persecution and everyone on earth is a Muslim. Then you can stop killing people. 2:193a
Intermarriage is forbidden. 2:221
Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. 3:28
Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim. 3:73
Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you. 3:118
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89
The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101
Do not choose disbelievers as friends. 4:144
Never help disbelievers. 28:86
The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers." 2:254
Non-muslims will be punished by Allah for their nonbelief. 3:19
We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151
Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers. (See 2:65-66) 4:47
If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91
Non-muslims are wrong doers. 5:45
Jews and Christians are evil-livers. 5:59
Those who deny Muhammad's revelations are like dogs. 7:176
Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 9:123
Allah hates disbelievers. 35:26
And then a comment...
https://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130429050316AAq2MOs
Islam has to eradicate from its codex all notions of killing as a justified means to an end. So long as this sort of 'code' exists the programming is allowed to be carried out by the mules. Then there are the cultural overtones that exacerbate the ability for rational people to accept 'Muslims' since so many practice in country's where people are treated like dirt, especially women. Finally, all religons have a egoist based condition that is problamatic. No prophet would espouse death and destruction much less treating people like dirt. It is the egoists who create these conditions and then hide their despicable behavior behind the cloak of 'religion' or religiosity to justify their actions.
I lean toward agreeing with the above part "eradicate from its codex all notions of killing as a justified means to an end". If you gave people a "holy book" with this stuff, then some percentage of wackos are simply going to act on it and feel they are justified. Like they are and have been doing.
The Quran was sent down to the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) verse by verse in duration of 23 years. In this 23 years many things happen, I wont go into the history but just want to say that that the prophet and his followers went through many hardships and sufferings to tell people about the revelation that was sent to the prophet by god. I really hope more people can give more respect to the Quran and prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) which are the guidance and example for 2 billions Muslims worldwide. When people slander the Quran or the prophet, it really hurt us Muslims to see the book and the person which we respect the most being degraded.
I dont know where you guys get your information about Islam but I would assume some get from media that only potrays muslims as "freedom hating jihadists" whatever that means. There are crazy people among the Muslims, Christians, Jews, Atheists etc., but it is unfair to paint one group or its system of belief with the same brush because of the actions of some people in that group. I would encourage anybody that sees only negative in Islam to consider looking the other side of the coin. Lets resolve any misunderstanding and focus our effort in fighting against the system that has opressed people into spiral of debt, that is why we have Bitcoin eh?
If anybody has questions about Islam I would love to provide with information that I could find.
I will look into your suggestions. Thanks.
Todays smartphones are powerful, flexible, and affordable. There is no need for a dedicated hardware cold wallet as a smartphone can be turned into one.
Eventhough I myself have a Trezor underway but I see cold wallet solution for smartphones would benefit a lot of people.
I hope devs involve with bitcoin would look into this.
I will send an email to the organizer of the hackathon, maybe they can spread this idea around.
Todays smartphones are powerful, flexible, and affordable. There is no need for a dedicated hardware cold wallet as a smartphone can be turned into one.
Eventhough I myself have a Trezor underway but I see cold wallet solution for smartphones would benefit a lot of people.
I hope devs involve with bitcoin would look into this.
I will send an email to the organizer of the hackathon, maybe they can spread this idea around.
Hi,
I would like to suggest cold storage solution within Bitcoin Wallet like the one employed within electrum and armory.
Meaning one phone is connected to the internet to transmit transactions and another phone as cold storage and for signing transactions.
Transactions can be easily transferred between both devices by using qr code or bluetooth which is more convenient than pc cold storage solution and more portable as well.
I have an old phone that I want to use as cold storage and do offline signing but there seems to be no solution for this yet.
I believe many others like me have an old phone that is just collecting dust so I think addition of this feature would be great.
People can give a new purpose to their old phones as hardware wallets.
I hope you guys would look into this. Thanks.
I would like to suggest cold storage solution within Bitcoin Wallet like the one employed within electrum and armory.
Meaning one phone is connected to the internet to transmit transactions and another phone as cold storage and for signing transactions.
Transactions can be easily transferred between both devices by using qr code or bluetooth which is more convenient than pc cold storage solution and more portable as well.
I have an old phone that I want to use as cold storage and do offline signing but there seems to be no solution for this yet.
I believe many others like me have an old phone that is just collecting dust so I think addition of this feature would be great.
People can give a new purpose to their old phones as hardware wallets.
I hope you guys would look into this. Thanks.
Re: [ANN] Bernankoin the Coin Not Evil according to Paul Krugman DL WINQT v1.3 NOW
I think pankkake and bernanke are related.
Both names have 8 letters, 3 syllables and they rhyme. Even pankkakes avatar hairstyle is almost the same as bernankes.
This cannot be a coincidence, they might be the same person.
Now that bernanke is not the federal reserve chairman anymore, Bernankoin is the only logical direction for him.
Forget bitcoin and other worthless cryptocurrency, Bernankoin is the future.
Both names have 8 letters, 3 syllables and they rhyme. Even pankkakes avatar hairstyle is almost the same as bernankes.
This cannot be a coincidence, they might be the same person.
Now that bernanke is not the federal reserve chairman anymore, Bernankoin is the only logical direction for him.
Forget bitcoin and other worthless cryptocurrency, Bernankoin is the future.
Re: Estimate of ASIC pre-orders: 13 to 15 PH/s (diff 1.8B to 2.1B) by end of 2013
Hash train Choo! Choo!
http://www.coindesk.com/coinseed-5m-investment-bitfury-mining/
http://www.coindesk.com/coinseed-5m-investment-bitfury-mining/
I wonder how long will the difficulty keep increasing exponentially.
Manufacturers like Hashfast and Cointerra still working on their product, blackarrow is coming in. The difficulty will only keep skyrocketting once they have stable product output.
Who knows what is going on in the background, hashrate increased 50% in just half a month.
It is not wise to invest in mining if you expect to get back the bitcoin you invested. The manufacturers are getting all the edge with the offers they give. Instead of getting investors for r&d, they got all those money from pre-orders with false promises, it is easier to suck money from the masses than from a few. They only sell in limited quantity to gouge the price while in the background they might be building their own farms from the profit they got.
Bitmain is different from most manufacturers with no pre-ordering but still, the consumers are on the bad end of the deal. They sell their miners at price point that they think the miners might roi and I think they profitted a lot from that, their products BOM I believe is just at a fraction of the price they are selling.
Unlike gold shovel, bitcoin shovel can dig by itself.
Manufacturers like Hashfast and Cointerra still working on their product, blackarrow is coming in. The difficulty will only keep skyrocketting once they have stable product output.
Who knows what is going on in the background, hashrate increased 50% in just half a month.
It is not wise to invest in mining if you expect to get back the bitcoin you invested. The manufacturers are getting all the edge with the offers they give. Instead of getting investors for r&d, they got all those money from pre-orders with false promises, it is easier to suck money from the masses than from a few. They only sell in limited quantity to gouge the price while in the background they might be building their own farms from the profit they got.
Bitmain is different from most manufacturers with no pre-ordering but still, the consumers are on the bad end of the deal. They sell their miners at price point that they think the miners might roi and I think they profitted a lot from that, their products BOM I believe is just at a fraction of the price they are selling.
Unlike gold shovel, bitcoin shovel can dig by itself.
Re: Thinking about naming my baby girl Bitcoin.. (due in 3 weeks)
Do it, your bitcoin holdings will double without you spending a dime.
I think the reason the OP has received no donations is because he is only "thinking" of naming his baby girl "Bitcoin". The ultimate name he chooses is up to him, so I don't see why anyone should donate for the guy to name his daughter "Jennifer".
Re: [ANN] Bernankoin the Coin Not Evil according to Paul Krugman DL WINQT v1.3 NOW
when is fractional reserve banking going to be integrated? this is just one thing missing from otherwise great money system, forget bitcoin and its deflationary system.
Bitcoin already has those, ask Ukyo or TradeFortress to make a Bernankoin version if you really want.There are 150+ active miners at GPool, but there is no regular activity on this thread!! What is going on? Every BEK people busy with mining?
People are just keeping quiet with all the money they got. Do you know all the shreholders of Federal Reserve? I dont think so. Keep on printing if you dont want to be left behind!I have a little over 2 millions BEK to sell. Give me the price you are willing to pay. BTC and other cryptos welcomed. Please PM me.
Man, i dont have any btc with me. Would the good old paper fiat do?Re: [ANN] Bernankoin the Coin Not Evil according to Paul Krugman DL WINQT v1.3 NOW
when is fractional reserve banking going to be integrated? this is just one thing missing from otherwise great money system, forget bitcoin and its deflationary system.
Like Technomage said this is not a solution to the problem. We will not know how much network share cex.io accumulates with them pointing their miners at other pools which is not better than current situation. If this goes on we would have to trust cex.io to keep bitcoin secure. Security of bitcoin lies on the decentralization of the network and not on a single entity, you shouldnt need to trust anybody in a decentralized network.
Please help improve decentralization of bitcoin network. If you want to reinvest your bitcoin, you will only lose money buying mining shares. I have shown this a few post back, you can calculate it yourself with the historical trade data.
Please help improve decentralization of bitcoin network. If you want to reinvest your bitcoin, you will only lose money buying mining shares. I have shown this a few post back, you can calculate it yourself with the historical trade data.
Re: Why are people drawn to GHash.io, and how can we reverse it?
Don't confuse cex.io with ghash.io. These are two separate issues.
cex.io is part of ghash.ioThe ghashes people trade on cex.io are hashing for ghash.io
I'll try to make it clearer. The OP and the point of this and other threads is the hash power not the potential for someone to gain or lose trading at cex.io. It is completely irrelevant if everyone sold their cex.io hashing power today at a loss or gain. Ghash.io would still have the hash power and possibly even more incentive to do something untoward with the blockchain. People are pointing their own miners to ghash.io. That's what OP wanted to figure out how to stop, or at least slow.
About 3 weeks ago a sell off at cex.io started which saw the price dropped from 0.072 to 0.032 at the end of last year. 2 days ago I noticed ghash.io had 33% network share and today 40%. Coincidence?