You can do what you want, and you can think about your goals in bitcoin how you want.

I consider bitcoin to be a lifetime investment, so once you reach overaccumulation status, then you would start to have the option to sell within the overaccumulated amount, and so I do not consider bitcoin to be an asset in which you might spend 4-10 years or more accumulating it and then you sell large portions of it or even all of it.

Surely there can be variations in regards to the thinking about what is overaccumualtion status and how to manage such overaccumualtion status, once reached.

Figuring out how to manage overaccumulation status is not a bad problem to have, and surely, guys are going to vary in regards to how they believe is a good way to manage overaccumualtion status.  I think that sustainable withdrawal is a good way to manage overaccumulation (unless you have age and/or health considerations that might cause you to need to withdraw bitcoin in non-sustainable ways), and you surely do not need to agree.


They go together, and surely if a guy is still accumulating bitcoin until he reaches overaccumulation status, there could also be a period in between accumulating and starting to withdraw where he is merely just maintaining his holdings, whether he is just holding and neither buying nor selling or maybe he is buying on dips and selling on the way up.. There can be a variety of ways to manage a guys holdings once he is no longer accumulating bitcoin, yet surely I cannot see any reason to sell any bitcoin unless the guy is at overaccumulation status, and he would ONLY sell from the overaccumulated portion.  I also am not sure why a guy would not continue to buy bitcoin in the event that he has not yet reached overaccumulation status.  I personally don't see a whole hell of a lot of reason to just sit idle and to hold, but sure, I can see that others may well differ in their opinions and they are too worried about screwing things up so they just hold in a kind of status that they are no longer buying and they are not selling either.


I used 17.166 BTC as an amount of BTC that would be needed right now if a guy were to want to be able to sustainably withdraw at a pace of $80k per year. 

Of course, there are guys who do not want or need that level of income, and likely in 3-4 years, the amount of BTC needed for an $80k per year income (even accounting for inflation/fiat debasement) will likely be around half the amount that is needed today.. so that would be 8.583 BTC in 3-4 years.

You have to figure out your level of income, and also your level of income in the future may well relate to your level of income in the present, and so in that regard, I have shown several examples in which guys might have had invested into bitcoin around 2 cycles at a rate of 15% per year of their salary, and in two cycles they would have had been able to double their income from the amount of BTC that that they had accumulated and then entering into sustainable withdrawal. 

Yes, you may or may not be able to invest 15% per year, and then also bitcoin may well not perform as well as it had done historically, so you may well need more than 2 cycles in order to achieve a similar goal based on your own income and what you are able to invest into bitcoin based on your discretionary income.  For example, you cannot invest 15% of your income into bitcoin if your discretionary income is less than 15% of your income, so there might either be ways that you need to increase your discretionary income by increasing your income and/or cutting your expenses or maybe you have to take longer to get to your goals. and surely bitcoin's future performance is not guaranteed, either.


Guys can do what they like, yet from my perspective, I am not considering it a good idea to trade bitcoin, and you are talking about trading.

I also talk about the reason for overaccumulation is in order to get into some kind of a sustainable withdrawal system, which seems to ONLY make sense with the passage of time, including being in bitcoin for at least 4 years, but yeah, there could be some ways in which guys could front load their bitcoin investment, yet it still seems like trading if they are merely selling based on their holdings being in profits.. but yeah, whatever they can do what they like, and trading is not really what I am talking about in terms of a good way to try to valuate your bitcoin holdings and also to figure out some price based and/or time based sustainable withdrawal techniques.

In some of my other posts, I had mentioned that my conception of how to employ price-based sustainable withdrawal could kick in faster than time-based sustainable withdrawal since price based sustainable withdrawal is based more on the BTC spot price rather than time-based sustainable withdrawal having 200-WMA valuations contained therein.  Surely guys could employ systems that differ from my own ways of thinking about matters.


You might not know what overaccumulation is until you start to get close to it or that you have reached it, and I am not even proclaiming any kind of monopoly in terms of how it might be assessed/calculated.

Yet, at the same time, I consider overaccumulation to be quite a powerful concept in bitcoin, since many other assests will ONLY allow you to withdraw around 4% per year, so in order to achieve an ability to engage in sustainable withdrawal, your investment portfolio needs to be valuated at about 25x your annual income.  Yet, personally I believe that bitcoin allows a person to withdraw at 10% per year as long as he is valuating based on the 200-WMA, which means that he ONLY has to reach 10x his targeted annual income as long as he is valuating his bitcoin holdings based on the 200-WMA. 

Surely overaccumulating provides a cushion and should give some piece of mind that the person is not prematurely selling too much too soon and that he is maintaining his bitcoin value to at least be 10x higher than his annual income based on the 200-WMA valuation of the bitcoin.  I personally think that if guys are spending their bitcoin and not paying attention to their overaccumulation status, then they run risks of spending too much bitcoin too soon, which to me does not seem like a good place to be either financially or psychologically.  But, yeah, again, guys can do what they want and they can end up making mistakes by spending too much of their bitcoin too soon, and presuming that they are richer than they are, and that is their choice in regards to how to think about and/or manage their bitcoin holdings.


Reminds me of the expression:  "time in the market is preferred to timing the market,"  which justifies why so many of us suggest to get started buying BTC as soon as you can (at any price) and then just keep buying bitcoin as aggressively as you can without overdoing it, which likely will take many folks 4-10 years or longer to get their bitcoin holdings to a point that is enough or more than enough which would then justify that they no longer need to worry about accumulating bitcoin.


If something is scarce (or rare), then you don't need a lot of it in order for it to be an asymmetric bet to the upside.  Of course, bitcoin is currently divisible by 100 million, so each bitcoin has 100 million satoshis, so you may still feel that you have a lot of satoshis, even if you have less than a whole bitcoin.

Logically it does not make sense to me that some folks might have had reached a status of overaccumulation of their bitcoin, since there is likely some value to spend your bitcoin rather than to die with them, but hey, whatever, you can think about the matter however you like in terms of your  thinking that overaccumulation is not possible to achieve with bitcoin merely because it is amongst the most (if not the most) scarce of assets known to man.


If you are a low coiner or a no coiner, it is better to get started right away.  So yeah, that could be considered a rush to get started right away.

It is likely that an overwhelming majority of folks are low coiners, especially if they are still in their first full cycle of accumulating bitcoin.

You, Doan9269, are barely reaching your first whole cycle of being registered on the form, and perhaps you were able to reach overaccumulation status, if you had frontloaded your bitcoin investment.  Otherswise, I doubt it.  You likely are still needing to accumulate bitcoin, so your inclination to describe trading tactics is likely not only appropriate for most beginners, it may also not be very applicable to your own personal financial situation, either.  Of course, I cannot know your particulars, so it could have had been possible that you were able to significantly front load your bitcoin investment and to get yourself to a status of overaccumulation.  Perhaps? perhaps?


One way to avoid sensations of fear of missing out (FOMO) is to ongoingly buy bitcoin... any guys who are insufficiently/inadequately preparing for up run the risk of putting themselves into a situation of experiencing FOMO.

Cited for viewability.

You might get more interaction with your posts Vip 75, if you were to post the contents in English (in the English-speaking parts of the forum) and also if you were to make some of your own comments about the context of the posts, rather than merely posting linked information from other locations without your own comments, analysis, assessments, and/or opinions.

As is your practice, you seem distracted and diluted Wind_FURY.  You seem to want to proclaim that you have better ideas than Saylor, and surely you don't.  Cost per BTC is not the ONLY way to figure out performance and/or strategies, whether we are talking on the individual level or institutions and/or governments.

Of course, individuals have to be more careful in regards to how they use debt and/or leverage, yet they still may be advantaged to continue to buy bitcoin at higher prices and not waiting for dips that may or may not end up happening.

Another thing is that if capital comes available when BTC prices are higher, such as Saylor/MSTR's stock prices are higher at that time, then he takes advantage of the momentum of us stock that makes more cash to come available when MSTR stock values (and/or other ways of valuating his company and/or assets are up, rather than down).

You can naysay on Saylor and MSTR all that you want, but you really look like the ignorant one when you are proclaiming that he does not know what he is doing based on his buying BTC at high prices rather than "waiting for the dip."  Dips that might not happen.

Sure, Saylor's situation is different as an institution, and surely I would not recommend that individuals need to employ such levels of leverage and/or even investing beyond 25% of their income, yet individuals do not have access to such credit lines like Saylor and Saylor/MSTR has various kinds of cashflows (and emergency funds) beyond their software business.

I would say that you, Wind_FURY, have some of the similar dumb ideas when it comes to individual accumulation of bitcoin, and surely you have biases in your head about needs to wait for dips prior to buying.  Remember in mid-to-late 2023 when the BTC prices were bouncing between $25k and $32k and you were so worked up about NOT buying and waiting for BTC prices to go back down into the lower $20ks and even perhaps returning back below $20k, which was quite retarded when we consider that the 200-WMA was then in the $27k arena, and you were wanting more of a discount than what already existed because you were proclaiming that poor people need to get a better discount and blah blah blah,... having fun staying poor because you are too busy waiting for dips that may well end up not happening.  Hopefully, no one followed your 2023 waiting recommendations, especially if they ar in their accumulation stage including if they were either low coiners and/or no coiners.


Another good point. 

 


To some extent, it is amazing that someone who has supposedly been accumulating bitcoin since 2016 and supposedly studying bitcoin still has not figured out some of the basics of bitcoin, and the fact that Saylor/MSTR is engaging upon various attempts to leverage upon dollar debasement and/or even the hype of market movements in which more debt comes available based on UPPity price momentum that is a combination of BTC uppity momentum but also their company stocks going up at the same time at even a greater rate.  But yeah, Wind_FURY is not going to be fooled by any of those artificialities, since Wind_FURY is smarter than Saylor/MSTR and has some profound insights in regards to basic principles of "buying the dip," that he would like to share about his level of smartness.


I am sure that Saylor/MSTR has been learning a variety of techniques in their years of buying bitcoin, including how they report their BTC buys, and from time to time, Saylor even talks about some of their buying techniques, including how amazing he found it that he/MSTR could buy millions of dollars of bitcoin without moving the price, which showed it's 2020 liquidity, and surely I would imagine that bitcoin has become even more liquid in the subsequent nearly 5 years later.

I understand that Saylor had not given too many specifics in regards to his personal holdings beyond what you said that he has at least as much if not more than what he had initially disclosed, yet there was a time in early 2024, that some of his MSTR stock options were to expire (around $216 million worth), and I believe that he said that he was buying bitcoin with some of that money...

https://decrypt.co/211626/michael-saylor-to-sell-216-million-in-microstrategy-stock-options-buy-more-bitcoin

And yeah, does it matter?  Probably not  very much... I had frequently considered that Saylor might have had been able to add an additional 10k bitcoin or more to his personal stash, so I personally had speculated on more than one occasion that Saylor may well have around 30k bitcoin or more in his personal BTC stash.


I thought that overall if Saylor is proclaiming that he wants to double the initial goal of $42 billion acquisition that he had proclaimed in October 2024, then surely he expects that his acquisition and abilities to continue to buy bitcoin with other people's money is going quite well, and so surely he might be able to reach 1 million bitcoin or more in the coming years (how long?  I am not going to proclaim to know exactly, but within less than 4 years seems reasonably possible.. though surely bitcoins are likely going to continue to get more expensive for the purchasing of each one).

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1kesh9n/michael_saylors_strategy_unveils_84000000000/

I think that one of the most basic things about swimming is learning how to control your breathing, and that is not about holding your breath but instead perhaps starting out by learning how to bob in water that it is more shallow than your height, and so you breath in when your head is above and breath out when your head is under water, so every second you breath in and out by bobbing each time. and then of course, learning various ways to float and you might not need to be able to propel yourself very much as long as you can learn various ways to mostly float, and then once you learn to breath and to float, then you can start to learn the various kinds of strokes and to incorporate various kinds of strokes into your different ways of propelling yourself.  Surely being able to learn in a location that does not have strong currents and has various levels of depth will create less need to have to propel yourself, yet the more that there is current in the water and the deeper the water (that you cannot stand up with your head above the water), then the more need to learn how to propel yourself in strong and/or enduring ways. 

I was a much stronger swimmer when I was younger, but I have lost a lot of my strength, so it would be more difficult for me to swim in strong current waters for extended periods as compared with my youth.  Sometimes the water will have strong under currents, and we might not know about the current until we enter the water.  Surely it does help to be a stronger swimmer if we might surprisingly encounter strong currents, or of course in the ocean large waves.  Probably I cannot tolerate cold water as much as when I was younger either, yet surely if we are swimming and moving then our bodies will warm up and we will be able to tolerate lower temperatures, and even if the water is too warm, then it might not be as comfortable to exercise if the water is too warm.


Happy Cinco de Mayo to you too.


I had to reset some of my buy and sell orders in order to move money from one location to another (and/or to rebalance), so I was contemplating whether I should change my intervals and/or increments and/or the amounts, so currently I have a pretty decently-sized spread between my buys and sells that are in the ballpark of $7k.. even though my increments are currently around $3k, so in that sense, it takes longer for the orders to fill, or to flip from selling to buying or from buying to selling.. but my spreads have been around $7k for a while and even when we spent most of 2024 between $50k and $70k, it seems that my spreads were similar amounts (though surely my memory may well be fading.. I would have to go back and look at the specifics).

So for me, ever since January I started buying from around $101k (although I did have a few that were above that price point, I think that $105k was my highest), so then the next buys down were $98k, $95k, $92k, $89k, $86k, $83k, $80k, $77k, and I cannot recall any of my $74k orders filling, so far (and perhaps they never will)..

Of course, I had some sell orders fill.. starting at around $81k, then $84k, $87k, $90k, $93k, $96k.. .

So right now my next buy orders are actually $92k, and my next sell orders are $99k, $102k, $106k, $109k, $112k etc.

To make an initial resolve, my moving of balances from one location to another, I ONLY need two orders to fill on the way down or two orders to fill on the way up or it could be a combination of those.. yet I am also attempting a bit of more of a rebalancing that has currently set 4 on the way down, and 3 orders on the way up..  I have not figured out exactly how the numbers will end up playing out, so I just wait until they execute, either on the way up or the way down or some combination of both to see if I have achieved a sufficient level of rebalancing to satisfy my bitcoin versus dollars and where those bitcoin versus dollars are located.  Maybe we could label what I am doing as arbitrage, but I am not really attempting to take advantage of any differences in prices, so the amounts that I am using is pretty much the same as they used to be, but just changing the amounts on each of the locations.

For example, let's say that each of my BTC buy/sell orders were $1k.  And so if I were to be working with three exchanges in order to transfer from one exchange to the two other exchanges, my current BTC sell orders and my current BTC buy orders are $1k each on each of the exchanges, and so the totals are $3k for each of the price increments (whether buying and/or selling in this example). For illustrative  (and attempts at clarity) purposes, I will plot it out.

Prior to the adjustment the values might look like this:   
      
Price  Buy   Exchange 1   Exchange 2   Exchange 3
$92,222.22    $1,000.00   $1,000.00   $1,000.00
$89,222.22    $1,000.00   $1,000.00   $1,000.00
$86,222.22    $1,000.00   $1,000.00   $1,000.00
$83,222.22    $1,000.00   $1,000.00   $1,000.00
$80,222.22    $1,000.00   $1,000.00   $1,000.00
         
Price  Sell   Exchange 1   Exchange 2   Exchange 3
$98,888.88    $1,000.00   $1,000.00   $1,000.00
$101,888.88    $1,000.00   $1,000.00   $1,000.00
$105,444.44    $1,000.00   $1,000.00   $1,000.00
$109,888.88    $1,000.00   $1,000.00   $1,000.00
$113,444.44    $1,000.00   $1,000.00   $1,000.00
         
After Adjustment the values might look like this:   
         
Price  Buy   Exchange 1   Exchange 2   Exchange 3
$92,222.22    $2,000.00   $500.00   $500.00
$89,222.22    $2,000.00   $500.00   $500.00
$86,222.22    $2,000.00   $500.00   $500.00
$83,222.22    $2,000.00   $500.00   $500.00
$80,222.22    $1,000.00   $1,000.00   $1,000.00
         
Price  Sell   Exchange 1   Exchange 2   Exchange 3
$98,888.88    $400.00   $1,300.00   $1,300.00
$101,888.88    $400.00   $1,300.00   $1,300.00
$105,444.44    $400.00   $1,300.00   $1,300.00
$109,888.88    $400.00   $1,300.00   $1,300.00
$113,444.44    $1,000.00   $1,000.00   $1,000.00         

Essentially, I am moving dollars (right around $4,000 in the example) from Exchange 1 to Exchanges 2 and 3, and at the same time I am moving bitcoin (the equivalent of $4k in bitcoin at whatever price is sells or is bought at) from Exchanges 2 & 3 to Exchange 1.  Of course, if I were to want to try to gamble a bit, I could adjust the size of the buy and/or sell orders at each of the price points, yet in this particular example (and in my real life situation) at each price point, I decided to keep the totals the same.

So in the example, the totals remain $3k for each of the price increments in which the buy orders or the sell orders are reached (my real life amounts vary for each price, but it may not matter, and surely in my examples, I use $1k for each of the orders because it is relatively easy to calculate)...

If I were to want to adjust to my level of bearishness or bullishness, then if I were to be feeling more bullish, then I might sell less bitcoin and set the buy orders higher or if I am feeling more bearish, then I might set the sell orders higher and put the buy orders lower.

Right now, in real life (and in this example) since I am largely happy where I am at (except for a preference to rebalance and to move value from one exchange to other exchanges), I personally prefer keeping matters the same, yet, even if I were to make changes, I tend to prefer small tweaks rather than bigger tweaks to any changes to my overall BTC portfolio management practices.. during the times that I become inclined to tweak any of my amounts and/or my increments.   

During the period that I am waiting to figure out which direction my buy/sell orders will end up executing, once my buy orders or my sell orders execute then each time one executes, then in order to keep my BTC versus dollar ratio amounts more or less equal to what they would have had been absent the movement of the value from one exchange to the others, I will have to adjust on the other end, so in this example, if the BTC price ends up going down to $83,222.22 or lower then all of the sell orders will end up resolving back to the status that they had prior to the adjustment, and so all of the matters are resolved if the BTC price goes down 4 orders or on the other hand it will also resolve if the BTC price ends up going up to fill my 4 adjusted sell orders, yet if it ends up ONLY going half way, then it ends up ONLY being half resolved, so if for example, the BTC price only ends up going down to $89,222.22 in this example, then ONLY two of the higher level sell orders would end up getting reverted back to their original amounts, yet at the same time, if the price were to go up, after going down to $89,222.22 in this example, then it would only need to sell two of the upper orders to resolve the whole transfer matter, and in this case, if two buy orders were to resolve, then I would end up setting two new sell orders at $95,888.88 and $92,888.88 respectively.   I personally am considering myself to be neutral and everything is likely resolved with 4 orders whether they are 4 orders up or down or a combination of up and/or down in any direction or order.

So, it can be exciting to figure out which one(s) are going to fill first, yet at the same time, there is a certain emotional neutrality to the matter, and sure it could take months or even years for the matter to resolve, yet I have my doubts, and it seems that bitcoin ends up being so inevitably volatile that the matter is going to resolve in one direction or another sooner rather than later.. yet there are no guarantees, and perhaps if after several months, the matter has not resolved (and if the BTC price were to get stuck between $92,222.22 and $98,888.88 (or thereabouts like in my example), then I might need to resort towards taking some actions that would cause results sooner, if I were to get worried about the timeline in which the transfer/adjustment resolves itself through BTC price moves. 

I don't see anything wrong, embarrassing or confusing about the statement that gold has been corrupted by traditional financial systems and bitcoin is more difficult to corrupt.  I do find Mansory22022's seeming convolution of bitcoin and crypto to be a bit lost, yet it is common for many normies to conflate bitcoin and shitcoins, as if they were similar things in the context of their value add.

Bitcoin is likely in the ballpark of 1,000x or more better than gold in terms of various money properties, such as scarcity, verifiability, transportability, divisibility, costs of holding/transporting, less need for third-party involvement, etc, yet bitcoin is currently ONLY about 10x gold's price, so it is likely that more and more folks, whether individuals, institutions (including banks) and/or governments, are going to continue to gravitate into bitcoin, either buy just buying bitcoin rather than gold, buying bitcoin derivatives, selling gold and/or selling gold derivatives.

Bitcoin has been eating gold's lunch for at least the last 13 years (I like to start my counting from 2012), and will likely continue to eat gold's lunch into the future, even though there has been some recent revival of gold's price.  Sure, it might take 50-200 years for bitcoin/gold to reach the correct prices in which bitcoin is 1,000x greater price than gold.

Regarding your reference to shitcoins, and OP's reference to shitcoins, that seems to be largely irrelevant to consider that anyone woudl be using any shitcoins as a gold substitute.

Assessing yourself to have had reached overaccumulation stage gives you options, and surely the greater your overaccumulation level, then the more options that you have, especially in regards to the overaccumulation amount.

Surely, I am not in any rush to sell my BTC, yet I did start to employ price-based sustainable sales once I considered myself to be well into an overaccumulation level.. and I stared that in late 2015, and sure I made various reassessments along the way, too.

Sure it could be a problem to assess yourself as to having had reached overaccumulation status and then to be mistaken within your own assessment and then you would mistakenly sell too much too soon.  so there still can be questions regarding how to manage your BTC once you assess yourself to be in overaccumulation status.. which also at minimum might cause you to change your accumulation practices, since if you really are in overaccumulation status, then you don't need to accumulate more bitcoin.  Sure optionally you can accumulate more bitcoin, but you have options and you don't have to accumulate any more BTC.

For example, if you consider that being able to live off of your bitcoin with a perpetual income of $80k per year, then right now, you might consider 17.166 to be the threshold level for overaccumulation status.    So if you have 25.166 BTC, then you would have 8 BTC in your overaccumulation amount, yet if you are barely at 17.166, you might feel that you don't have any cushion... so there can be comfort in regards to having a cushion, and maybe if you only have 17.166 BTC, then maybe you might consider spending one more year accumulating bitcoin and then to reassess your level of overaccumulation at that time...

So even if you assessed that you reached overaccumulation status,  you might not be comfortable to start to sell any of your BTC until you are sure that you are ONLY selling from within your overaccumulation amount and you are not accidentally taking yourself  out of overaccumulation status based on your sales of too many BTC too soon.  Each of us has to make these kinds of assessments and to try to protect ourselves from making a mistake of selling too many BTC too soon, especially if our goal might be to try to keep ourselves in overaccumulation status rather than putting ourselves back in a situations where we feel that we have to accumulate more BTC in order to either get to overaccumulation status or to make sure that we are in overaccumulation status, in case we might not be sure of our own assessment and/or the level of our cushion.

You have to remember that even a guy who puts 10% of his salary into bitcoin, it will take him 10 years to reach 1 year of his salary invested into bitcoin.  I consider 10% reasonable if your discretionary income can tolerate it.

There are folks who are investing into bitcoin at much more whimpily than 10% per year.. so it is going to take them a while to reach over-accumulation status, perhaps even more than 20 years.

Of course, bitcoin price performance can help them, but if they were only investing 1% of their salary into bitcoin, it would take them 100 years to get 1 years salary invested into bitcoin... so it can be questionable if some whimpy levels of investing are going to be enough to get to overaccumulation status.  Of course, any investment into bitcoin is better than nothing, but it pays to have a bit of an ability to increase our investing aggressiveness, especially for any of us wanting to reach overaccumulation status.

One of the risks of being your own bank... and then yeah, the more people know about bitcoin, they can kidnap almost anyone and then get them to send bitcoin, even if the person does not have bitcoin, they might be inspired to get bitcoin if they are being threatened with the death of a loved one.


Old news.


That's why "we" cannot have nice things.


It does help to have some plausible deniability if others are wearing such paraphernalia. 

"I was just wearing such t-shirt, hat and underwear to be cool like dose dee udder peeps."


I knew that there was something a wee bit imprecise about the retirement projections, but I just could not put a finger on it.


trolling dee dude in his HODL sleep.

What did dee dude do to you?

Show me where he touched you?

 


A little retarded to not know where a guy stands in regards to due process rights.  We should all be worried if alleged "criminals" can just be wisked away and taken to other countries without notice and/or a right to a hearing.


Cited for view-ability


As of today, I consider 17.166 BTC to be the threshold starting point today for earning an annual income of $80k in perpetuity, yet it may well take a bit of decently good BTC portfolio management to execute such a sustainable withdrawal without screwing it up... so then yeah, younger people might not need very much income until they have to support themselves, so it seems a bit unrealistic to be considering those who are less than 18 years old as retiring (and/or supporting themselves) prior to age of majority 18 years or whatever that might be depending on location/jurisdiction.


You sound a bit lost to be asking such a question.  Bitcoin is about 1,000x better than gold, even though it could take 50-200 years to play out.  Bitcoin is currently priced a little less than 1/10 of gold (in terms of market cap).

Bitcoin has been eating gold's lunch for the past 13 plus years (I like to start bitcoin's price from the beginning of 2012.  It was $5 at that time). 

Bitcoin will continue to eat gold's lunch in the coming years, even if in the past 6 months or so, gold has been having a bit of a renaissance in its price-performance. 


You are getting your Hals and your Lazlos mixed up.

Edit:  I see Merit.s set the record straight.


You have only been registered on the forum for slightly more than a year cxtreenal.. so I am not sure what you are talking about holding.  You think that you have enough coins.

Many folks in these here parts spent a good cycle or more accumulating bitcoin before starting to rest on their laurels.

Of course front loading is possible, yet I have a hard time imagining any guys being able to meaningfully accumulate enough or more than enough of a BTC stash in less than a whole cycle without significant front loading of their stash.  So you seem to be in a wrong mindset if you think that you have enough BTC cxtreenal. 

But hey.  You know your own stash size and situation way better than this here cat who ONLY had been able to glance at your forum registration date.. and to attempt to surmise from that kind of a data point..


I'm going to just say that I think that your lack of flexibility is not healthy sometimes... .even though sure, I already know it seems to be your personality.. but still... the 4-year fractals are not guaranteed, even though they have been playing out pretty well, so far, in bitcoin's history.


Gold is not necessary... except maybe if you cannot help yourself and/or you are already used to fucking around with that old shiny rock, then less than 10% of the size of the stash of your bitcoin might be o.k. to keep in gold, and perhaps having gold as less than 5% of your BTC stash would even be better.  I still think zero gold is o.k. as long as you have a bitcoin strategy.. .and yeah, even  Armageddon scenarios, there could maybe be some uses for gold.. perhaps ? perhaps?  I doubt it but you perhaps?

Bitcoiners do not need to buy MSTR, since it does not matter if MSTR might trade higher than BTC.  Owning BTC is way more powerful than owning stock of a company that owns BTC... Sure if you want to put 5% of your BTC holdings into something other than BTC, then that is your choice.  It is not necessary to buy anything other than BTC, especially since MSTR is a derivative of BTC that depends upon BTC doing well for it to do well.  If BTC does badly, then MSTR will also do badly.

You sound like someone who does not even know what Saylor/MSTR is doing.  Just spouting out some nonsense without knowing specifics, and acting like you know something or you have some ideas about some vulnerabilities that they "must have."  Yet you are just throwing shit at the wall and hoping that maybe something sticks, lik you are merely guessing.

MSTR is not even using BTC as collateral, and they end up owning the BTC entirely after servicing the debt.  Their debt to asset ratio is quite low, too, with debt terms that are quite low interest rates such as less than 1% and then terms that are 4 years or more into the future...

It is a bit unclear to what you are referring.  

First you are mixing terms of bitcoin and crypto, and it seems that this thread is about bitcoin and not about crypto, even though sure we might proclaim that there is some relation to crypto whether we are talking about how much crypto might be included in the teachings of the Master's degree or if we might be talking about the extent to which the world's population is aware of bitcoin and/or crypto and then how much adoption there might be of bitcoin and/or crypto.  It still seems important to attempt to distinguish between them so that we might know what you are talking about since for sure there is a lot of confusion, including folks not necessarily knowing the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins.

Second: if we are talking about people who know about bitcoin, it could not be very many, since if they actually knew about bitcoin they would start buying it.  Sure there may well be a lot of people who heard the name bitcoin, yet they might not know shit about bitcoin, and part of the evidence of someone not knowing bitcoin is when they use the word crypto to refer to bitcoin and other related projects either because they actually don't know what is bitcoin and/or because they are trying to sound as if they were smart.

Third:  Actual bitcoin adoption may well ONLY be around 1% of the world's population, even though we have more and more rich people, institutions and governments getting involved in buying and/or holding bitcoin.  Maybe we have an additional amount of people who hold crypto, yet I am not sure how much that shitcoin holding matters, yet I suppose there could be ways of trying to figure out the extent to which there might be some shitcoin holders that exist that ONLY hold shitcoins and do not hold bitcoin.  Sure there are likely some of those, and yeah, they likely don't know much about bitcoin if they are holding shitcoins and thinking that there is some kind of good reason to do so.. beside pure gambling.


With most programs, there will be some mandatory components that need to be studied by all the students, and there will be some elective areas, and sure a student could probably choose to focus on cryptography kinds of studies within the elective component of their program.  Alternatively, a student could choose to minimize the amount of exposure to the cryptographic aspects of bitcoin and focus on non-cryptographic aspects of bitcoin (apart from whatever materials about cryptography are within the mandatory areas of the curriculum.


Just because people heard the word bitcoin does not mean that they know anything about it.  As I mentioned in my above response, if people actually knew what bitcoin is, they would actually get started buying it - especially if they have some discretionary income... but we have less than 1% world-wide adoption and perhaps even some folks who have started with bitcoin don't really know it, except that it has a "number go up" characteristic/feature.


It used to be that when people wanted to sound like they knew what they were talking about they would say that bitcoin is all about block chain, and that blockchain angle is what makes bitcoin important and valuable.  Blockchain is like a buzzword to make you look smart when you use it, similar to how crypto is sometimes used.  People try to avoid saying bitcoin because they will consider that they might look smarter if they say blockchain or maybe if they say crypto, instead.

Some swimming in recent times. nothing too outrageous... of course, swimming is largely cardio.. but surely can be good practice for breath control.  I have a friend who is learning to swim who cannot figure out the breathing part.. which i continue to try to show how to do it, and it does not seem to difficult. 

I did notice that when I do the freestyle (front stroke) I tend to breath on the right side which means that my left arm is coming down when I breath. 

I used to be able to do that from either side, yet I guess that I have created a habit of breathing out of the right side, so I was thinking about trying to change my habit to relearn how to do the breathing out of the left side.. which might take a few sessions of forcing myself into breaking the habit that I have formed.  I am about to go swim, so I am thinking that I will try to do that today - on purpose and to retrain myself..

100k,JayJuanGee,455,109530,2025-05-04

I surely agree with tailoring our strategies the best we can to our circumstances, yet I doubt that we ever achieve perfection, since we are likely always acting upon incomplete information and also some moving dynamics, yet like you suggest, it is good to be striving to create and maintain strategies that are largely aligned with our financial and psychological circumstances - which also should help to lessen our emotional reactions to BTC price moves (even extreme moves), yet we are still likely going to become emotional even when we might have had set up our systems and practices as best as we are able to accomplish in light of our circumstances.

Personally, I don't really care that much if a person wants to shoot for 1 BTC within 4-10 years or more or some other timeline; however, I frequently see 1 BTC being mentioned as a target without any sense of realism, and like I mentioned in an earlier post, even a person starting out with an average of $200 per week invested into bitcoin will potentially have some struggles to reach 1 BTC in 10 years, so my concern is that guys are being realistic in terms of setting their goals, and even though 1 BTC tends to be a Schelling point, it still is likely not very realistic for so many folks shooting for 1 BTC without ha ving some kind of a realistic contest in terms of having some pathway towards such plan.

Actually, I know some guys who had goals in late 2013 or so to get anywhere between 20 to 40 BTC within the next year or two, and so at that time, BTC prices were around $1k per coin, and so then there could be some thoughts that it might take $20k to $40k to reach such BTC quantities, and surely since the BTC price went down after that point, and largely stayed below $1k for the next 3.5 years, it became way more reasonable to keep such a goal of 20-40 BTC, and many of those who would have stuck with ongoing bitcoin accumulation may well would have been able to exceed or even double or even triple their BTC accumulation goals within the next 2-3 years.   

So surely frequently if we set realistic or even conservative goals, we may well end up exceeding them, even though it may well not hurt to have goals that are aspirational too.. so even the person in late 2013 might have had know that it would also be possible to reach 100 BTC so long as he were persistent in investing, and maybe if he was thinking that after 3 years he might be able to invest right around $90k, then surely it may well have had been possible for a guy with that level of budget to reach 100 bitcoin (or come close to that level), even if he might have had an initial (and more conservative goal) of accumulating somewhere in the 20 to 40 bitcoin accumulation arena.

So in some sense, 1 BTC has become the 100 BTC of 2014, and so wanting to reach 1 BTC, there may well be a need to consider being able to invest $100k to $200k over 2-3 years or even longer, and even if a person might be able to invest $200k in 2-3 years, it might still be uncertain if he is going to be able to reach a whole BTC in that amount of time...so in some sense, it may well even make more sense to aim for how much dollars we might be able to invest into bitcoin rather than aiming for the amount of BTC those dollars might accumulate in the timeframe that we are considering investing those dollars... and sure it does not hurt to have both dollar and bitcoin quantity goals that also consider various timeline considerations too.


Yep some folks might know that they can front load their BTC investment with $60k or more over a year, and perhaps even have a budget that allows for another $20k to $50k to be invested each year for the next 3-4 years. 

There are some folks who have that kind of a budget, even though surely most people do not have that kind of a budget, so there is going to be quite a bit of variance... even the guy who is able to front load with $20k and then invest $200 per week for the next 4-5 years, he still might struggle to get to 1 bitcoin in the next 5 years, but at least he has some kind of a reasonable chance of reaching 1 BTC or more as compared to guys who might merely have $50 to $100 per week or less, and maybe even few likelihoods of having lump sum amounts come available that will allow meaningful increases to his more or less $50 to $100 per week investment capacity.. which also might be struggling.

There are so many members participating in this forum who consider $50 per week to be out of their reach, so in that sense, there are needs to attempt to be realistic in regards to considering how many BTC might be accumulated over the next year, two years, 5 years, 10 years and longer.

Some guys have possibilities to increase their discretionary income by increasing their incomes and/or cutting their expenses... yet others might not have a lot of hope in regards to being able to increase their discretionary income in the coming 4-10 years or longer.

The program is not specifically teaching "cryptography."  The program is also in the economics department.  You can look at the list of subject matters to get the 60 credits, too:


There might potentially be some cryptography aspects of some of the courses, yet cryptography does not seem central to the overall curriculum.

I am not suggesting that XXI cannot be successful, yet they would have to give a certain high level of dedication to establish that their fund is a serious competitor to MSTR, and surely they could use their own money to build such confidence, especially since Tether by itself generates a lo tof ongoing income, and at the same time, I understand how there is a preference to use other people's money to buttress the position, and so the more confidence they build then the more that other people will also invest into their product as either a supplement of MSTR or as alternative to investing in MSTR.


XXI purposefully is trying to market the comparison.. to force the conversation in the comparison direction, and XXI is also trying to proclaim that they are a better product, even though so far they have no track record with this particular product, even if they might have other products with track records.


In recent times, Tether itself is a behemoth when it comes to cashflow... and yeah, MSTR has set itself in such a solid way that it would be difficult to take market share from them, and largely MSTR is likely thrilled to death that other companies are coming in to follow similar leveraging systems that essentially pump the value of MSTR's already acquired bitcoin.

So many movies that I have not watched.   

If we know a person, and if we can tell that they have discretionary income, then we can et them know that they are qualified to invest in bitcoin, so then it is ultimately their choice to determine whether or how much to invest, and then how frequently to continue to invest while studying bitcoin, and yeah, if we want to spend some time explaining to them the benefits of taking a bitcoin position or to let them know that we are investing into bitcoin and to describe the ways that we are investing into bitcoin while at the same time strengthening our cashflow management systems and practices, then we can spend time explaining to them, yet they are ultimately responsible whether to invest or to look further into the matter or to ignore it. 

Surely there remains a very large minority of folks who are actually investing into bitcoin or who have any meaningful stake into it.. .and surely guys who invest into bitcoin will be more motivated to pay attention to bitcoin and to study into it further rather than just ignoring bitcoin or presuming to know about bitcoin when they likely do not know as much as they think they know about it, merely becuase they might have had heard the name bitcoin.