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There hasn't been an update because there has been very little to update you on.
Key points:
Bounty is 2% of sales. Total sales have not been determined because we are still helping some people through KYC verification. Until we have that number and any unsold tokens have been burned, nobody gets bounty tokens.
Regardless of impatience, accusations, and bickering about stakes, there is no way to hurry that process. We apologize for the delay, but that doesn't mean our priorities will change. Envion will work hard to accept every cent of investment from eligible investors possiblethat's the point of holding an ICO. Real humans that participated meaningfully in the bounty program will get their rewards in due time.
Thanks for understanding.
Key points:
- There was abuse and we're cracking down on it
- No bounty can be distributed until all KYC and other ICO activities are finished
- Bounty is part of the ICO prospectusthe legal document underpinning the ICOand will be paid
Bounty is 2% of sales. Total sales have not been determined because we are still helping some people through KYC verification. Until we have that number and any unsold tokens have been burned, nobody gets bounty tokens.
Regardless of impatience, accusations, and bickering about stakes, there is no way to hurry that process. We apologize for the delay, but that doesn't mean our priorities will change. Envion will work hard to accept every cent of investment from eligible investors possiblethat's the point of holding an ICO. Real humans that participated meaningfully in the bounty program will get their rewards in due time.
Thanks for understanding.
We are glad to discuss what is happening at envionthe how's and why of our businessbut it seems the word scam is being used as a stand in for the frustration for not getting everything you want when you want it. It's hard not to come across as negative when someone is throwing accusations your way, but for the sake of our valued investors we will respond and try to stay positive in the face of obvious FUD.
1.) Some investors can't use tokens. That's true. CC investors cannot use their tokensthey knew this before purchase.
A VERY small percentage of BTC purchases who finished KYC are still receiving tokens. Less than 2% left. There's a similarly low percentage of ETH purchases still in the pipeline. Script is running now: unlocking ETH purchasers tokens and sending BTC tokens to wallets. It takes time. Other than that, it's people who have yet to finish KYC and some of the people who purchased outside the ICO portal like large-sum CC investors.
Everyone else who finished KYC should have tokens.
2.) Let's get some facts straight: Unlocked tokens can be traded. Exchanges trade tokens. Envion does not trade tokens. We are not selling to new investors. I think OP really does not understand envion's business model or what a security token is.
3.) This is completely nonsensical. We are not pumping hype because it has no effect on our company. We are working with investors who can't get KYC done and meeting with customers. That's our business and we're doing it.
4.) As for bounty, bounty was made up of a high percentage of abusers. Two choices: give abusers free tokens or take a long time to make sure no cheaters get tokens for nothing. We are choosing the latter. Envion has a responsibility to our investors who spent hard-earned money to only reward those who legitimately contributed to our success. We take that responsibility seriously. Shitcoins can give away free tokens because it doesn't cost them anything, but we are not going to pay out a lifetime of dividends to the people's whose fake Twitter accounts were already shut down or who used a script to translate original content from the human bloggers who supported us for the sake of expediency.
Those that value speed over integrity are going to find themselves on a rocky road with envion because as we made clear from the start: we are going to do everything above-board.
5.) We responded to most requests for a visit. We were shooting for a MMU visit on March 8th, but unfortunately had to cancel due to some resources that needed to be sent to customer meetings overseas at that time. We'll have one soon and maybe coordinate with one of the conferences we'll be speaking at in Berlin.
Please make sure you are getting our newsletter and watching our video updates. Responding to accusations of scam is tiresome and unnecessary for the adults in the room who have some patience and understanding of what it means to build a business. You can't influence us to go faster because this is simply the pace we are working at. Those that understand that the value of our token is the business we buildthe resulting dividends from the mining profitsunderstand we need time to build the business and that we will not sacrifice that business to the demands of impatient traders who are not invested in the long-term success of envion.
That said, we do care about every one of our token holders and we understand that waiting can be frustrating. If we've dropped the ball on making your feel like we are responsive to your needs, then we will invest in making improvements. Stay with us and watch this thing grow in the next months. Any wait for tokens will feel insignificant when MMUs start deploying and dividends start flowing.
1.) Some investors can't use tokens. That's true. CC investors cannot use their tokensthey knew this before purchase.
A VERY small percentage of BTC purchases who finished KYC are still receiving tokens. Less than 2% left. There's a similarly low percentage of ETH purchases still in the pipeline. Script is running now: unlocking ETH purchasers tokens and sending BTC tokens to wallets. It takes time. Other than that, it's people who have yet to finish KYC and some of the people who purchased outside the ICO portal like large-sum CC investors.
Everyone else who finished KYC should have tokens.
2.) Let's get some facts straight: Unlocked tokens can be traded. Exchanges trade tokens. Envion does not trade tokens. We are not selling to new investors. I think OP really does not understand envion's business model or what a security token is.
3.) This is completely nonsensical. We are not pumping hype because it has no effect on our company. We are working with investors who can't get KYC done and meeting with customers. That's our business and we're doing it.
4.) As for bounty, bounty was made up of a high percentage of abusers. Two choices: give abusers free tokens or take a long time to make sure no cheaters get tokens for nothing. We are choosing the latter. Envion has a responsibility to our investors who spent hard-earned money to only reward those who legitimately contributed to our success. We take that responsibility seriously. Shitcoins can give away free tokens because it doesn't cost them anything, but we are not going to pay out a lifetime of dividends to the people's whose fake Twitter accounts were already shut down or who used a script to translate original content from the human bloggers who supported us for the sake of expediency.
Those that value speed over integrity are going to find themselves on a rocky road with envion because as we made clear from the start: we are going to do everything above-board.
5.) We responded to most requests for a visit. We were shooting for a MMU visit on March 8th, but unfortunately had to cancel due to some resources that needed to be sent to customer meetings overseas at that time. We'll have one soon and maybe coordinate with one of the conferences we'll be speaking at in Berlin.
Please make sure you are getting our newsletter and watching our video updates. Responding to accusations of scam is tiresome and unnecessary for the adults in the room who have some patience and understanding of what it means to build a business. You can't influence us to go faster because this is simply the pace we are working at. Those that understand that the value of our token is the business we buildthe resulting dividends from the mining profitsunderstand we need time to build the business and that we will not sacrifice that business to the demands of impatient traders who are not invested in the long-term success of envion.
That said, we do care about every one of our token holders and we understand that waiting can be frustrating. If we've dropped the ball on making your feel like we are responsive to your needs, then we will invest in making improvements. Stay with us and watch this thing grow in the next months. Any wait for tokens will feel insignificant when MMUs start deploying and dividends start flowing.
Hi guys, this threat is for those Envion investors who purchased the tokens during ICO with bitcoin and still have them locked in the envion accounts. The following facts are outrageous:
1) There are at least 10,000 of investors who still can not use their envion tokens.
2) Envion is playing an insolent and deceitful game with bringing their tokens to trade on Hitbtc (Envion is selling the tokens to new investors, while ico investors can NOT trade their locked tokens).
3) Envion support team responds within several days with a template message like "you should be patient and wait for the email with instructions to unlock your tokens" and naive investors think it's a very difficult and high volume process, but in fact Envion continues to grow its capitalization by exclusive trading its tokens as described in #3. And this response is lasting for 6 weeks already.
4) The objective attitude to Envion by a giant number of investors can be read in the comments on Medium (for envion's updates and news) and here in the main thread of Envion ico. I should say the attitude has changed from 95% positive to 30-40% positive... and it is within 1 month only. There are even lots of bounty participant complaints about the tokens they have never received.
5) As of now, many investors are eager to see (during a visit) the real working MMU in Germany, some have written many requests to envion sales to purchase MMU and have never heard back.
So don't you think that Envion is not just one of the biggest ico of 2017, but also a biggest scam? How can we influence envion to unlock our tokens as soon as possible?
1) There are at least 10,000 of investors who still can not use their envion tokens.
2) Envion is playing an insolent and deceitful game with bringing their tokens to trade on Hitbtc (Envion is selling the tokens to new investors, while ico investors can NOT trade their locked tokens).
3) Envion support team responds within several days with a template message like "you should be patient and wait for the email with instructions to unlock your tokens" and naive investors think it's a very difficult and high volume process, but in fact Envion continues to grow its capitalization by exclusive trading its tokens as described in #3. And this response is lasting for 6 weeks already.
4) The objective attitude to Envion by a giant number of investors can be read in the comments on Medium (for envion's updates and news) and here in the main thread of Envion ico. I should say the attitude has changed from 95% positive to 30-40% positive... and it is within 1 month only. There are even lots of bounty participant complaints about the tokens they have never received.
5) As of now, many investors are eager to see (during a visit) the real working MMU in Germany, some have written many requests to envion sales to purchase MMU and have never heard back.
So don't you think that Envion is not just one of the biggest ico of 2017, but also a biggest scam? How can we influence envion to unlock our tokens as soon as possible?
Re: «Envion» Highest ROI crypto infrastructure | $2M Bounty available!
Hi everyone,
I would not say we're all that far away from seeing the spreadsheet. We've made a lot of progress. For example we could eliminate literally thousands of fake Twitter accounts by using their API and, among other things, simply running a script to see which accounts Twitter deactivated because they were bots. Some things like signature bounty and Facebook require us to just click through thousands of links. Most of the work has been done though.
And yes, we are clicking through thousands of links. We have found all manner of attempts to cheat the bounty from people posting envion content as original content (when you refer to "our team" and "our mining operations" it's pretty clear it's a cut and paste job being passed off as original) to inputting the same posts/accounts multiple times hoping we wouldn't notice. We noticed.
What this means for bounty participants is that the humans that participated honestly will be better rewarded than if we had not done the review. it also means there will be a delay. We're sorry for that. However, please keep in mind that envion is still working to verify the final stragglers for KYC for the ICO and until all of that is done, and all refunds are issued to ineligible investors, there is no way to distribute the bounty because it's only after that is done that we will know the final amount of tokens sold and can determine the 2% for bounty.
A longer post will be published this week explaining what is going on. In the meantime, we are sorry to the humans that did a great job with bountyyou'll get you tokens!and we are not sorry to the bots and cheaters who caused this delay.
I would not say we're all that far away from seeing the spreadsheet. We've made a lot of progress. For example we could eliminate literally thousands of fake Twitter accounts by using their API and, among other things, simply running a script to see which accounts Twitter deactivated because they were bots. Some things like signature bounty and Facebook require us to just click through thousands of links. Most of the work has been done though.
And yes, we are clicking through thousands of links. We have found all manner of attempts to cheat the bounty from people posting envion content as original content (when you refer to "our team" and "our mining operations" it's pretty clear it's a cut and paste job being passed off as original) to inputting the same posts/accounts multiple times hoping we wouldn't notice. We noticed.
What this means for bounty participants is that the humans that participated honestly will be better rewarded than if we had not done the review. it also means there will be a delay. We're sorry for that. However, please keep in mind that envion is still working to verify the final stragglers for KYC for the ICO and until all of that is done, and all refunds are issued to ineligible investors, there is no way to distribute the bounty because it's only after that is done that we will know the final amount of tokens sold and can determine the 2% for bounty.
A longer post will be published this week explaining what is going on. In the meantime, we are sorry to the humans that did a great job with bountyyou'll get you tokens!and we are not sorry to the bots and cheaters who caused this delay.
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
Hi,
We already sent you link to an alternative verification provider that supports Vietnamese investors.
Please make sure you check your email and use the new provider.
Cheers, L
We already sent you link to an alternative verification provider that supports Vietnamese investors.
Please make sure you check your email and use the new provider.
Cheers, L
My account ; boydatinh3107@gmail.com
I verified IDENTITY CHECK by webcam but cam video they do not support Vietnamese
what shoud i do ?
I verified IDENTITY CHECK by webcam but cam video they do not support Vietnamese
what shoud i do ?
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
Hi Ivan,
I'm not sure what your issue is. If you log into your dash, you can unlock tokenseverything is there. When was the last time you logged in? Are you still having login issues?
We have contacted you 6 times to help you with your problems; I'm sorry if you find our response time unsatisfactory. At this time, I see no errors for your account.
-Laurent M.
I'm not sure what your issue is. If you log into your dash, you can unlock tokenseverything is there. When was the last time you logged in? Are you still having login issues?
We have contacted you 6 times to help you with your problems; I'm sorry if you find our response time unsatisfactory. At this time, I see no errors for your account.
-Laurent M.
So, this is my story with EVN and the disappearance of my money AND the customer support. It started mid December 2017 when i bought some tokens with a credit card with discount - 0.7$ for token. I'm not going to mention the exact amount because i think its irrelevant - you either do what is necessary for your customer or you just don't give a f... On the other side - stealing 500 or 500k is still a theft. Anyways, the amount was not something i can't afford to lose, but i decided to write here just in case someone wants to read my few lines of frustration. And so - there am I, buying some coins and receiving a message - "functionality for buyers with BTC or credit card will be available in a few days", or something like that. Their system said i need to go through the KYC program and after a few days i will see the transaction details on the dashboard. I sent all the pictures of ID they wanted, some selfies and so on... Then i thought "Hey, that was pretty easy, i own some EVN already!"... Yes, but nooo... The next time i tried to sign in i was unable to login. This thing kept happening for a few days and finally i decided to write to the customer support. At first they were quite fast - 2 day and i got an answer, although they were "very busy" with the ongoing ICO. They managed to solve the issue (idk how) and i was able to login to my dashboard and guess what - still no info of my transaction. "No functionality yet", i thought. The days passed, weeks passed - no info of my transaction in the dashboard of their site. Then i decided to write again and ask what is going on. They were quite fast gain, but still... "very busy". I got asked to send more pictures of me and more ID pictures. I got asked to point the exact date and time of the transaction and all the details i have. I did it. Sent the pics, sent them the information of the transaction from my bank, sent even the number of the bank account i used. I was assured everything is fine with my tokens, since they are reserved for me and everything is going to be fine, once the ICO is over... Guess what 
Riiiight, it was the last time i actually had some sort of a conversation with someone from the staff. I wrote a few more mails after that and all i got was some sort of automated messages about merging mails to the first issue and no real answer or a solution for this issue. As of today it takes like 10-14 days to get some sort of an email from them which is not even related to the issue i have. Thanks, but no thanks. For me those guys have the worst attitude ever, or are just a bunch of crooks who made quite some dollars on their ICo, stealing from regular joes. I hope I'm wrong for the sake of all the investors, but i have a feeling about it and it doesn't feel right. So, that's it from me. My e-mail is ivan.z.latunov@gmail.com (just like my account on EVN), just in case you want to share your story with me Have a good day guys, and be careful, some people out there are way better in frauds than anything else.
Riiiight, it was the last time i actually had some sort of a conversation with someone from the staff. I wrote a few more mails after that and all i got was some sort of automated messages about merging mails to the first issue and no real answer or a solution for this issue. As of today it takes like 10-14 days to get some sort of an email from them which is not even related to the issue i have. Thanks, but no thanks. For me those guys have the worst attitude ever, or are just a bunch of crooks who made quite some dollars on their ICo, stealing from regular joes. I hope I'm wrong for the sake of all the investors, but i have a feeling about it and it doesn't feel right. So, that's it from me. My e-mail is ivan.z.latunov@gmail.com (just like my account on EVN), just in case you want to share your story with me Have a good day guys, and be careful, some people out there are way better in frauds than anything else.The final review of the bounty program by envion staff is not yet complete. The current review was done to eliminate bad actors and control for quality work by verifiable humans. The revision done by bounty managers will be closely reviewed by envion staff before tokens are distributed.
We will not comment on the details of this process until the final decisions have been made. It is possible no changes will be made and it is possible that we will continue to make changes or reverse changes. Again, we will not comment until our internal review is complete.
In the meantime, envion is focused on completing our ICO by finishing the KYC verification process.
We will not comment on the details of this process until the final decisions have been made. It is possible no changes will be made and it is possible that we will continue to make changes or reverse changes. Again, we will not comment until our internal review is complete.
In the meantime, envion is focused on completing our ICO by finishing the KYC verification process.
Re: «Envion» Highest ROI crypto infrastructure | $2M Bounty available!
Hi Everyone,
The bounty sheet as it stands is not final, so we can all relax a bit.
Toward the end of the ICO, we realized that there was quite a bit of abuse of the bounty programpoor quality posts, automated translations, and accounts that are plainly bots were credited on the bounty rolls. In some cases, these bad actors were scoring better than participants who spread the word with great quality content and access to audiences of real people who ended up investingproviding real value to envion and the ICO.
Obviously, rewarding bad actors instead of the most helpful people is not good for envion, but more importantly, this is unfair to all of you who spent time helping us reach our goal.
Envion has asked the bounty managers to make a thorough review of all the bounty rolls to remove abusers and to identify the participants who contributed the most. This process is ongoing and envion will have the final say in the bounty distribution.
The bounty team is still in the process of their review. After that, the envion team will do another assessment. The results of our assessment will be final and will result in fairer rewards for our contributors.
We ask that you be patient as we proceed with the review and know that we will take your input here into consideration.
Cheers,
envion Support Team
The bounty sheet as it stands is not final, so we can all relax a bit.
Toward the end of the ICO, we realized that there was quite a bit of abuse of the bounty programpoor quality posts, automated translations, and accounts that are plainly bots were credited on the bounty rolls. In some cases, these bad actors were scoring better than participants who spread the word with great quality content and access to audiences of real people who ended up investingproviding real value to envion and the ICO.
Obviously, rewarding bad actors instead of the most helpful people is not good for envion, but more importantly, this is unfair to all of you who spent time helping us reach our goal.
Envion has asked the bounty managers to make a thorough review of all the bounty rolls to remove abusers and to identify the participants who contributed the most. This process is ongoing and envion will have the final say in the bounty distribution.
The bounty team is still in the process of their review. After that, the envion team will do another assessment. The results of our assessment will be final and will result in fairer rewards for our contributors.
We ask that you be patient as we proceed with the review and know that we will take your input here into consideration.
Cheers,
envion Support Team
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
Hmmmm. anyone notice the telegram Envion channel disappeared?
Envion, any update on that? Temporary issue?
Envion, any update on that? Temporary issue?
Why don't you double check your Telegram? I'm on the channel right now, it seems fine to me. Perhaps you just need to update?
SOOOOOOo..
I just realized I cant see the chat anymore because it looks like they banned me.
Some young investor was talking unrealistically about the Envion ICO going 10x or 20x when it hits the market and i tried to educate him and explain to him the difference between an ICO that might do that and Envion which is backed by Assets with a defined possible revenue and focusing on dividend payouts. Funny because I am a big supporter and investor in Envion and I have defended their business plan and spent more time to research them than most and it looks like they didnt like what I said, even though this person really might have benefited from some information and I talked positively about the companies outlook. Thats not cool, no mod even spoke to me. I guess they liked this guy pumping the 10x. I'll leave you with a quote from our young pumper, and again, Shame. Not sure if it was Laurent. Anyways, I am still an investor in the company. I'll just chalk it up to a mistake on Laurent's part. Im a little sour right now, so unless they restore my account and perhaps explain, I think I might have to stop boosting Envion's name.
"So how some people say will only go to 1.30 per token amazes me. It has to go 5 to 10 easy. I may be wrong but let's see"
If you think it was a mistake, then you can always DM me (Laurent). If you are who I think you are, it's because you posted a link to your mining operationdo not post competitor links on the channel. Period.
I'm happy to reinstate if you have a good reason.
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
I have tried many times and now i get this error message
I have tried three different cards still couldn't get it done. Talk to the bank too. they said i haven't tried a transaction.
Can someone help me to get this through
Quote
Credit card payment not successful.
Tip: In case of failed credit card payments please call and ask your bank and ask them not to block payments to "Envion". After your call, come back and try again. If this does not work, please try another credit card. If everything fails, please purchase Ether (ETH) or Bitcoin (BTC) online and come back.
Message: There was a problem with your credit card transaction: Please check your input (e.g. card holder) and try again. If this does not work, please try another credit card
Tip: In case of failed credit card payments please call and ask your bank and ask them not to block payments to "Envion". After your call, come back and try again. If this does not work, please try another credit card. If everything fails, please purchase Ether (ETH) or Bitcoin (BTC) online and come back.
Message: There was a problem with your credit card transaction: Please check your input (e.g. card holder) and try again. If this does not work, please try another credit card
I have tried three different cards still couldn't get it done. Talk to the bank too. they said i haven't tried a transaction.
Can someone help me to get this through
Maybe check your daily limit. Or call them before you do the transaction and ask them to hold a few sec and confirm if it is being blocked at their end
I have already checked with the bank. what they said is that , they can not see even an attempted transaction. Tried tree different credit cards
Hi everyone,
I see there are some issues with credit card transactions here. Part of conducting a securities-compliant ICO means there are VERY high security requirements from our credit card provider.
- All cards must be enabled with 3D Secure authentication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure
- $100 minimum transaction
- $5000 maximum transaction
- Card must be authorized by issuer
If you would like to make an investment over $5000, please contact us directly at ir@envion.org.
If you are still having trouble paying with credit card, you can contact support@envion.org. Due to the high volume of requests, there might be a delay in responding and it might be faster to purchase ETH via Coinbase (https://www.coinbase.com) or Shapeshift (https://shapeshift.io) and transfer that to your MetaMask wallet (https://metamask.io/) prior to purchasing.
Envion is a rare ICO to accept so many payment types including fiat. We hope you appreciate the efforts we've made to accommodate card purchases and we're sorry for the inconvenience.
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
So I read the prospectus and I found a RED FLAG. It allows the company to buy back your token at any time, for 1$. they just have to give 60 days notice:
"The Issuer reserves the right to redeem the Tokens at any time prior to the Termination
Date up to an amount representing 99.9% of the equivalent of USD 1.00"
This needs to be addressed by Envion.
This is on page 12 of the prospectus: https://static.envion.org/kyc/Envion_Prospectus.pdf
"I TERM OF THE TOKENS
I. Term of the Token
The Tokens are issued for a period of 30 (thirty) years starting with commencement of the
Subscription Period (the end of that period: the Termination Date).
II. Redemption of the Tokens
1. The Issuer reserves the right to redeem the Tokens at any time prior to the Termination
Date up to an amount representing 99.9% of the equivalent of USD 1.00 (in words: one USDollar)
per Token. Notice of early redemption shall be given pursuant to clause M (Notices)
not less than 30 nor more than 60 days before the day fixed in the notice on which any Tokens "
"The Issuer reserves the right to redeem the Tokens at any time prior to the Termination
Date up to an amount representing 99.9% of the equivalent of USD 1.00"
This needs to be addressed by Envion.
This is on page 12 of the prospectus: https://static.envion.org/kyc/Envion_Prospectus.pdf
"I TERM OF THE TOKENS
I. Term of the Token
The Tokens are issued for a period of 30 (thirty) years starting with commencement of the
Subscription Period (the end of that period: the Termination Date).
II. Redemption of the Tokens
1. The Issuer reserves the right to redeem the Tokens at any time prior to the Termination
Date up to an amount representing 99.9% of the equivalent of USD 1.00 (in words: one USDollar)
per Token. Notice of early redemption shall be given pursuant to clause M (Notices)
not less than 30 nor more than 60 days before the day fixed in the notice on which any Tokens "
It's not a red flag, it's standard in every single security or equity purchase agreement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_repurchase
Not at $1 value. A share buyback would be at market value at the time or some such agreed upon price.
Would you agree to buy apple shares for$500 if there was a clause to buy it back at $500 whenver they want? doesnt make sense right. Unless I am misreading it but that should be clarified. It seems to be a buyback for $1?
I can see this will be an issue we have to address with some more depth. I'll provide a little more info now and we'll release a detailed statement.
It's technically not a repurchase. It's a feature of the financial instrument that underlies the ICO. ICOs don't really exist in the legitimate financial world right now, but envion worked with our legal team to find terms that would make an ICO possible now and viable into the future.
The redemption is not a buy back or a repurchase per se. It allows a refund to the purchaser up to 99.9% which means that you would be refunded your investment, but you would keep the ownership of your token and hence continue to receive the full value of the dividends entitled to you as the owner of that token.
We will elaborate on this concept in a blog post so that it's very clear how the financial instrument works and relates to the concept of ICOs. The high-level take-away is that we can't take your tokens and that it's a good thing because it means the ICO is iron-clad from a legal standpoint.
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
So I read the prospectus and I found a RED FLAG. It allows the company to buy back your token at any time, for 1$. they just have to give 60 days notice:
"The Issuer reserves the right to redeem the Tokens at any time prior to the Termination
Date up to an amount representing 99.9% of the equivalent of USD 1.00"
This needs to be addressed by Envion.
This is on page 12 of the prospectus: https://static.envion.org/kyc/Envion_Prospectus.pdf
"I TERM OF THE TOKENS
I. Term of the Token
The Tokens are issued for a period of 30 (thirty) years starting with commencement of the
Subscription Period (the end of that period: the Termination Date).
II. Redemption of the Tokens
1. The Issuer reserves the right to redeem the Tokens at any time prior to the Termination
Date up to an amount representing 99.9% of the equivalent of USD 1.00 (in words: one USDollar)
per Token. Notice of early redemption shall be given pursuant to clause M (Notices)
not less than 30 nor more than 60 days before the day fixed in the notice on which any Tokens "
"The Issuer reserves the right to redeem the Tokens at any time prior to the Termination
Date up to an amount representing 99.9% of the equivalent of USD 1.00"
This needs to be addressed by Envion.
This is on page 12 of the prospectus: https://static.envion.org/kyc/Envion_Prospectus.pdf
"I TERM OF THE TOKENS
I. Term of the Token
The Tokens are issued for a period of 30 (thirty) years starting with commencement of the
Subscription Period (the end of that period: the Termination Date).
II. Redemption of the Tokens
1. The Issuer reserves the right to redeem the Tokens at any time prior to the Termination
Date up to an amount representing 99.9% of the equivalent of USD 1.00 (in words: one USDollar)
per Token. Notice of early redemption shall be given pursuant to clause M (Notices)
not less than 30 nor more than 60 days before the day fixed in the notice on which any Tokens "
It's not a red flag, it's standard in every single security or equity purchase agreement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_repurchase
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
That KYC verification is a complete joke. Never got to a next step after entering address details. Glad I sent just small deposit to see how it goes.
Seems like it's better to hold our horses before they make clear statement on that redemption clause.
Seems like it's better to hold our horses before they make clear statement on that redemption clause.
We're sorry to hear you're having a problem with the registration process.
Our KYC vendor is proving to be a bottleneck for many investors due to the high volume of investors that require clearance.
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You can go back at a later time when there is less traffic and finish the process. There is no hurry; you can come back any time in the next few days and finish the transaction.
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Thanks for your patience. Let us know if there is anything more we can do to help you through the process.
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
It's regretful that we have to ban anyone from the Telegram channel, but we have a responsibility to our 12,000 members to encourage productive and respectful discussion. Every member has the opportunity to ask questions and get answers. It is our responsibility to communicate accurate information about envion to those who are interested. It's possible that you may not find satisfaction in our answers. The polite response to that situation is to move on to another topic or leave the group.
Repeating the same question and ignoring requests by admins and other members to stop cluttering the group and trolling is not an acceptable response and one that leads to sanctions. Your questions will never get you banned, a bad attitude is certain to get you banned.
Envion does not reveal its suppliers or pricing information. Period. This information falls under the trade secrets category for any and every business and revealing it not only jeopardizes the relationship with suppliers, but it also reveals information that could give competitors an advantage. It is no coincidence that the people most dissatisfied with our refusal to provide this information are in fact competitors.
@Saschaman is a competitor. He knows that given the small number of hardware suppliers, it's very easy to determine where hardware is coming fromeven if information on the deals is heavily redacted. Saschaman admitted so much on Telegramsimultaneously saying we should just black out certain information, but also saying that it would be easy to determine what sources are.
Envion considers this type of questioning to be an adversarial attack by a competitor.
We are confident that our investors understand that banning competitors for rudely demanding trade secrets is done as a protection for their investment.
Repeating the same question and ignoring requests by admins and other members to stop cluttering the group and trolling is not an acceptable response and one that leads to sanctions. Your questions will never get you banned, a bad attitude is certain to get you banned.
Envion does not reveal its suppliers or pricing information. Period. This information falls under the trade secrets category for any and every business and revealing it not only jeopardizes the relationship with suppliers, but it also reveals information that could give competitors an advantage. It is no coincidence that the people most dissatisfied with our refusal to provide this information are in fact competitors.
@Saschaman is a competitor. He knows that given the small number of hardware suppliers, it's very easy to determine where hardware is coming fromeven if information on the deals is heavily redacted. Saschaman admitted so much on Telegramsimultaneously saying we should just black out certain information, but also saying that it would be easy to determine what sources are.
Envion considers this type of questioning to be an adversarial attack by a competitor.
We are confident that our investors understand that banning competitors for rudely demanding trade secrets is done as a protection for their investment.
From what Laurent was saying I dont think so they going to release anything, and when I asked about it, and said they promised it and tried to push my argument he banned me, so I guess its just build a hype as much as you can keep sheeple until near ico then dont release anything cuz u got nothing, sheeple will send ETH/BTC anyway.
Actually, certain proofs and documents are promised to be released before the ICO. Right now, it's just a matter of waiting to see what information can be released and confirmed. The timing is unfortunate in terms of how late the information is, but let's see what we get in the next 24 hours.
Laurent banned me for asking to release any of proofs or documents that they promised here or in telegram.
I wasnt rude. I am interested in investing. I even explained him he can black out critical info.
All they say is no warn u if u ask again then ban u.
Tell ppl to use search function.
Anyway its day to ico and they promised to release some info.
I bet none will be.
Looks like this ico is based on promises and hype only.
Its okay if u invest 1000 or 2000$ but its not if you want invest 100 000 or 300 000 is it?
If you ask some hard proofs they will ban you. Yeh so other sheep won't see it.
Absolute bullshit
I wasnt rude. I am interested in investing. I even explained him he can black out critical info.
All they say is no warn u if u ask again then ban u.
Tell ppl to use search function.
Anyway its day to ico and they promised to release some info.
I bet none will be.
Looks like this ico is based on promises and hype only.
Its okay if u invest 1000 or 2000$ but its not if you want invest 100 000 or 300 000 is it?
If you ask some hard proofs they will ban you. Yeh so other sheep won't see it.
Absolute bullshit
Actually, certain proofs and documents are promised to be released before the ICO. Right now, it's just a matter of waiting to see what information can be released and confirmed. The timing is unfortunate in terms of how late the information is, but let's see what we get in the next 24 hours.
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
this project still seems to burn alot of power that could be utilized for better uses
Our pricing advantage comes from overcapacities in the renewables market.
Overcapacity = wasted energy
Renewables = endless supply
You must be thinking of conventional coin mining instead.
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
I will support the project, but I see many things what I did not liked in this video https://www.facebook.com/envion.org/videos/1911148582546478/
It is notable that the layout is very little developed, cables everywhere, space left, two tables for computers and each one occupying a lot of space, difficult access to the GPUs of the back shelves ... Maintaining the equipment will be extremely arduous when we come to see the large-scale business. Servicing a few units by dragging shelves? Okay, but what about 500? 5000? I do not think so ...
I didnt see questions about this Envion gap in anyware, so... it is highly necessary need improves on this internal layout, improve the positioning of the shelves, create a solution to facilitate the movement (eg introduction of bearings for the shelf to move inside the container helping to access those GPUs that are behind) optimize the system to be modular, make possible the stacking of the containers. I see enormous potential unexplored. Before starting mass production, they should hire engineers to give you a best layout, become modular, facilitate maintenance and make the most space as possible in the container. Lets do more, if you dont do, another do! This is the law in new blockchain era!
Tell me what Envion think about these considers. My english is not the best, but I think that can be understood. 🚀🌑
It is notable that the layout is very little developed, cables everywhere, space left, two tables for computers and each one occupying a lot of space, difficult access to the GPUs of the back shelves ... Maintaining the equipment will be extremely arduous when we come to see the large-scale business. Servicing a few units by dragging shelves? Okay, but what about 500? 5000? I do not think so ...
I didnt see questions about this Envion gap in anyware, so... it is highly necessary need improves on this internal layout, improve the positioning of the shelves, create a solution to facilitate the movement (eg introduction of bearings for the shelf to move inside the container helping to access those GPUs that are behind) optimize the system to be modular, make possible the stacking of the containers. I see enormous potential unexplored. Before starting mass production, they should hire engineers to give you a best layout, become modular, facilitate maintenance and make the most space as possible in the container. Lets do more, if you dont do, another do! This is the law in new blockchain era!
Tell me what Envion think about these considers. My english is not the best, but I think that can be understood. 🚀🌑
You are absolutely right. We did some testing and the testing console was still inside the MMU and cables management was not complete. Our techs tear it down and put it back together on a regular basis while testing new configs. The shelving we have works great for now and we are also testing additional designs that absorb shock and allow easier access to certain components.
Development will always be ongoing for both software and hardware, so pardon our dust when we try to give you a peak inside the process. You can find other videos we have where things are a bit more tidy on our social media channels.
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
Hi team, good news that the project has attracted some large investors. But please explain one thing to me, a potential small investor - I thought that the only way you plan to collect the money to start the project is via ICO, and that you are planning to distribute 100% of the profit to token holders. However, if you get other large investments outside the ICO, how would you distribute the profits then? Then it wouldn't be 100% of profits to token holders, as the large investors outside the ICO would also want their part of profit? Please explain.
Hi there.
The ICO is essential to the success of envion, but the envion machine has more moving parts to it. Envion distributes 100% of profits from Proprietary Operations (PO)where envion owns and operates Mobile Mining Unitswith our token holders.
If that were the only line of business, there would be no money to run the company.
The other part of the business is Third-Party Operations (TPO)where a customer purchases MMUs and envion operates and maintains the mining units. Envion distributes 35% of profits from TPO mining operations. This has always been where envion's operating revenue comes from.
There are some important things to note about the difference between these two revenue streams:
First, the growth rate for PO is more or less fixed because there is a one-time investment, the ICO, and a 25% reinvestment policy that written into the smart contract. Once the production run of PO MMUs financed by the ICO are deployed, growth will be steady at 25% forever.
Second, the growth rate for TPO is not fixed. The more customers that want to purchase MMUs, the greater the growth of profits for envion AND for token holders who earn 35% of the TPO mining operations revenue. This growth rate is infinite and PO is isolated from it. That means if it grows, token holders earn more money. If it shrinks, PO will never be threatenedthey are two separate business arms and, as indicated in the whitepaper, a separate business entitya subsidiary of envion AGwill even be created to manage PO.
Lastly and most importantly, these are not two competing business divisions. The PO MMUs will be the first to roll of the production line and the first to be deployed and installed. The TPO units will only help to further corner the market and assure that envion gets the best deals, continues to innovate our product, and becomes and indispensable service provider to blockchain-dependent industries.
So this is a positive development for token holders. More investment in the company means a healthier envion and a larger TPO operation which will increase dividends. That was always part of the plan and now it's just happening faster than we could have imagined.
Tl:dr Token holders profit's are fixed for PO. TPO growth is unlimited and token holders get 35% of TPO mining operationsthat's the part that will scale much faster via these new deals. There is no competition between the two.
Thanx for this answer Envion. We were discussing this very exact issue yesterday and wanted to post/ask it - but now we have the answer.
I do have one other question if you don't mind answering: As we have more MMUs running, the difficulty level of mining will probably increase. If we sell more MMUs to third parties, the mining difficulty will increase more and more. Is there some "sweet spot" where you will level off with the selling and production of more MMUs in order for your existing MMUs to remain effective and profitable? I know its difficult to answer as we know difficulty will increase anyway - whether Envion is there or not, but obviously we don't want to hang ourself with our own rope.
If this questions has already been asked, I apologise for the repetition, just show me the link and I will read the answer there.
Thanx
Hi. I think the issue is less of a sweet spot in terms of planning for difficulty than the eventual growth in other blockchain infrastructure needs. As mining becomes less profitable, other uses for our computational infrastructure will be more cost effective. Whatever service the PO MMU's provide will bring profits to token holders. Billions of dollars are being invested into blockchain technologies and they will all need reliable, enterprise-grade hardware infrastructure.
However, that's still far in the future. We have already calculated difficulty into our model and you can see the Mining Excellence section of the whitepaper for more details. Since we are capable of mining many different coins, we can also just mine what is profitable with the equipment we have. All of these decisions are made dynamically based on the config of an individual unit and current market data.
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
See According to ICO Drops, Envion scores MEDIUM considering everything. They score the Hype Rate very high, the risk rate normal, but the ROI rate low. This is the information on 1 Dec 2017 at https://icodrops.com/envion/.
I am a little surprised about the ROI rate. Envion is claiming 161%. We all know the proof is in the pudding, but I would love to know why Coin Drops is rating the ROI low. Coin Drops don't motivate why they give these scores. According to them the ROI Rate is defined as follows:
"This parameter shows how much the token can grow after its exchanges entering. It means short-term and medium-term growth. The parameter depends on the ICO conditions and results of similar category projects in the past."
Maybe it's the past failures keeping the ROI score low?
Except for the ROI rate, I think Coin Drops are happy with Envion.
We just published very detailed information on our ROIwhich actually went up from when we published whitepaper.
Check it out here: https://medium.com/@envion/exemplary-hardware-specifications-kpis-of-envions-mmu-ff5fb77cd5da
Honestly, I agree with Mark about the whole thing, there are way too many redflags and the smell of fraud is leaking everywhere.
First of all, for the sake of investors Envion should prove immediately that they are a real company. How to do that?
Give legal adress and especially whareouse adress so they can invite potential costumers to take a tour.
Make videos and photos of the team working, videos and photos of people actually working on the container not fake interviews of Matthias talking with a greenscreen depicting Fankfurt financial center.
Second: why the f**k a seroius company like Envion keeps the owners of the company in shadows? Do you know why Envion is giving up the names of the team members? Because they will have no penal responsability if everything goes wrong.
Third: if the so called CTO Matthias is half of what he claims to be ( investing 300ml in solar energy) why the hell should he need tiny random investors from bitcointalk. A man of his caliber, with a strong financial background has, for sure, ties with the german financial hub and does not need 1000 people investing 2-3k in his enterprise.
Envion wants to collect money from as many people as possible because people who invest 2-3k is not going to risk to hire a lawyer to get some saved money back.
Fourth: Where does the money go? From as far as I know it could go into a bank account called charity and end of story. Envion should give IBAN or bank wire account of the destination. Here we go with the fifth.
Fifth: Envion is a swiss startup operating in germany...why is that?
If everybody reads the whitepaper carefully it states that American citizens and green card holders cannot participate to ICO. The reason behind this is simple, swiss bank account holders have something called professional secrecy wich protects the account holder( ex. Banks do not have to give id of their costumers to law enforcement agencies)
The only way to bypass that is to commit an action that it is considered crime in both US and Swizerland and that the owner can be prosecuted in one of these countries. Hence, if he commits fraud to a US citizen and it is sued by him/her, its bananas in the dark hole for the account owner.
PEOPLE PLEASE RAISE YOUR AWARNESS, SAME GOES FOR THE MODERATORS
First of all, for the sake of investors Envion should prove immediately that they are a real company. How to do that?
Give legal adress and especially whareouse adress so they can invite potential costumers to take a tour.
Make videos and photos of the team working, videos and photos of people actually working on the container not fake interviews of Matthias talking with a greenscreen depicting Fankfurt financial center.
Second: why the f**k a seroius company like Envion keeps the owners of the company in shadows? Do you know why Envion is giving up the names of the team members? Because they will have no penal responsability if everything goes wrong.
Third: if the so called CTO Matthias is half of what he claims to be ( investing 300ml in solar energy) why the hell should he need tiny random investors from bitcointalk. A man of his caliber, with a strong financial background has, for sure, ties with the german financial hub and does not need 1000 people investing 2-3k in his enterprise.
Envion wants to collect money from as many people as possible because people who invest 2-3k is not going to risk to hire a lawyer to get some saved money back.
Fourth: Where does the money go? From as far as I know it could go into a bank account called charity and end of story. Envion should give IBAN or bank wire account of the destination. Here we go with the fifth.
Fifth: Envion is a swiss startup operating in germany...why is that?
If everybody reads the whitepaper carefully it states that American citizens and green card holders cannot participate to ICO. The reason behind this is simple, swiss bank account holders have something called professional secrecy wich protects the account holder( ex. Banks do not have to give id of their costumers to law enforcement agencies)
The only way to bypass that is to commit an action that it is considered crime in both US and Swizerland and that the owner can be prosecuted in one of these countries. Hence, if he commits fraud to a US citizen and it is sued by him/her, its bananas in the dark hole for the account owner.
PEOPLE PLEASE RAISE YOUR AWARNESS, SAME GOES FOR THE MODERATORS
We did a visit and investors and guests were able to meet the team and see the functioning mining unit. You can watch it here: https://t.me/ENVION_Ann/40
Envion has now been approached by a sovereign wealth fund and one of the largest banks in the world for investment after the ICO. The ICO is still necessary to activate funds immediately so we can start production in January. However, I think the legitimacy and effectiveness of our CEO is without reproach in light of this development: https://medium.com/@envion/envion-evolves-to-higher-levels-broader-public-and-new-ico-dateenvion-ico-announcement-change-e9f6ad69ed91
We have moved our ICO sale start date to December 15th in order to publish cross-border prospectuses prior to the ICO to take advantage of these offers. As a result ALL SWISS INVESTORS MAY PARTICIPATE without restriction.
Thanks for raising these issues. I think anyone interested in envion will find that they have been more than adequately addressed.
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
One question.
When ICO start there is high possibility that everyone will not be able to buy tokens as much as we want.
How will you deal with it. I mean, you said that we will have to register first and than transfer our eth. So what if i transfer my eth and theere is no any token left for example?
And one more thing, after we register can we make payment that second or we need to wait for account verification?
When ICO start there is high possibility that everyone will not be able to buy tokens as much as we want.
How will you deal with it. I mean, you said that we will have to register first and than transfer our eth. So what if i transfer my eth and theere is no any token left for example?
And one more thing, after we register can we make payment that second or we need to wait for account verification?
Hi Vlalonca,
We hope that everyone who wants to purchase tokens gets to buy them, but there is a distinct possibility at this pointwith more than 70,000 sign-ups for the pre-sale alonethat tokens will sell out before the end of the ICO sales period.
Tokens are generated instantly when your payment is received. If there are no more tokens, then your transaction will not be completed and your ether will be refunded to you instantly.
I have an update on KYC process and registration:
Whitelisted users should be able to pre-register by the end of next week. You will also be able to start KYC process. For 90% of users, that will be almost instant. For the remaining 10%, that could take 1-2 days depending on the number of requests congesting the system. A very small number might need to be manually verified and that could take longer.
The accreditation process for US and German investors will take a bit longer as eligibility will need to be manually reviewedthat could take 1-2 weeks.
For users coming to the website for the first time on the day of the sale, the registration process will not include a verification email and you can go straight to purchase.
After you've made your purchase, you can follow the status of your purchase on your dashboard. It will be clear that your tokens have been generated for you and are locked until you pass all the KYC/AML (and possibly accreditation) checks.
Re: [ANN][ICO] «Envion» Most Profitable Self-Expanding Crypto Infrastructure
.........
Hi. The answers to all these questions are on Telegram. You would still be able to look them up if you hadn't been hostile and had group members ask that you be banned. It's an unfortunate trend that people who cannot be civil on Telegram come to bitcointalk to air their grievances. Asking nicely is a much easier alternative......
CLOSING
In the future, when you come to our community channels, be polite. Search the existing content for answers and ask any unanswered questions nicely. If you still have questions, please ask them here. We are listening.
@Envion
Thanks for replying my questions. I found your project interesting at first sight, hell I was willing to invest! But then I read the article in Hacked, and now I see, it was 100% on the spot! https://hacked.com/continue-reading/
But as we have freedom on the net, and this forum is legendary for spreading info, (as many people invested their valuable time to improve our world with blockchain), you have tempted me to a response. Please do not forget YOU are the one here selling something, I am not. I am giving my opinion to investors. Here goes :
Dear Envion,
Firstly please stop lying. I haven´t insulted anyone on your Telegram, your people there just blocked me because I dared to ask questions. Exact same thing happened to guy from Hacked. You accused him of insults too.
If you accuse me of something be sure to deliver proof. I dare you! I have this chats on Telegram stored, don´t make me post it here. Again I did not insult anyone, your people on Telegram are arrogant, as are you, and not able to go in discussion. All they keep reapeting is, and I will put it in simple words:
"read the white paper, everything is in there. We are professionals, we know what we do, stop asking stupid questions. Trust us, give us our money."
It is fine to explain to noobs on Telegram how they can transfer their money to you, but I want answers to my questions.
-->--> No one is removed from Telegram unless they violate the channel's rules and other community members ask for them to be removed. I do not act unilaterally and I give the same quality answers there as I do here.
__
POSTPONING
Postponing was a no-brainer. We're looking at deals that could rival the size of our ICO and bring greater returns to every token holder. Nobody who manages to get a token on the 15th is going to second-guess that decision.
--> no real content here. So one day before the ICO should begin, you have new deals, but no info on what deal. We should just trust you and wait for it. Will do! Very curious. I think you didn't´t get enough fishes.
-->--> We have over 70,000 people signed up for the pre-sale. I'm not aware of any other ICO that has gotten that kind of traction. We have more than enough interest to meet our hardcap in a short time.
___
BANK INFO
We'll give evidence of the cooperation in the coming days even if we can't give the bank name. This is big news for us and a top priority.
--> again no content. So we will never know which bank it is. We will just have to trust you. I will be waiting for your evidence.
-->--> Patience is important. We are not a 4-person start-up. The reason we can get big deals is that we operate like an enterprise and that means discretion on certain matters. If we can't give the name, we'll do something like we did with our auditor deal so that you can verify what we say without having to disclose the name of the other parties to the deal.
Something like this: https://medium.com/@envion/envion-has-engaged-big-four-consulting-firm-deae68d0bc24
__
TEMPERATURE EXTREMES
Our MMUs work at VERY low temp with outside temperatures in a normal range. Our testing shows that it will work in 40C. Also, if we need to retrofit a container for a special installation location, then we'll do that.
--> I will repeat my question form previous two posts. Where are these test? Where are these results? in you white paper you have fancy sketches and pictures. Why can´t we see these tests? This is the deal breaker for me. I want the data, show it if you are legit!
-->--> Please read and respond to what we publish before you say there is no data. https://medium.com/@envion/fundamentals-of-air-cooling-6263bbfd64dc
__
Right now we have the luxury of choice of where in the world we install. These edge cases are a non-issue to profitability. For some reason, people think the company can't make money because there exist places in the world where X occurs. We just won't take those deals if we can't figure out a way to make money. There are plenty of offers where we can do just fine.
---> So let me quote your white paper in case you forgot:
"...This process has gone even further. In India, Chile and the Middle East, PV plants get paid as little as $0.03 to $0.04 Cents (USD) per kWh generated, which is only a slightly more than the price of dirty coal power..." and
" ... Once built, they are tied to their location and might lose competitiveness to other locations if price structures change. While new market conditions might be lethal for traditional data centers, they offer vast opportunities for the global, exible and intelligent mining operation that envion is launching now..."
So I read: in India, Chile, Middle East and also California, there is cheap electricity for now, and your MMU will be moved to location where this cheaper power is available so to this hot countries. And you are saying "we just won´t take deals if we can figure out". What is it now? Have you or have you not figured it out? It reads in the white paper as, you have figured everything out, and you´re willing to move your MMUs to places like this. Why use this places like an example if you re not gonna move MMUs there. Now you are saying "people think the company....". Yes I think, I am people.
-->--> Please consider all the the information I give as part of a constellation of data points that go into determining the eligibility of an install location. Extreme condition Xwhether it be temperature or something elseis just one of many conditions. We believe we can go most of the places mentioned above right now. If we encounter any one condition that seems prohibitive, then we consider the cost of a retrofitted container, change in design, additional maintenance, etc before accepting any deal.
Just because I talk about constraints and decision points does not mean that any ONE of them is going to stop us form installing. If it does, that's just part of doing business and we have plenty of offers, so at this point there are myriad options where mining is profitable right nowand yes, some of them will have us operating where ambient temperature is 40C.
___
HEATING
Our operating unit is currently inside a factory providing winter heat.
--> Do you have a big demand on heaters for factories? Do you have deals? Can you provide more info on that?
-->--> We have some interest, but far more from plant operators. It's just representative of an alternative use case and we are being approached with new use case concepts from potential customers ever day. After the ICO, we will spend more time evaluating which are the most promising. For now, we are focused on plant operators with access to pre-grid energy and we will be fulfilling those orders for a long time to come.
__
MAINTENANCE
Anyone can put GPUs in a box and call it a mining unit. Our innovation is that we use the same processes that industry uses to design for maintenance, for production lines, and for remote operation. If you are comparing envion to random miners operating in a random corner of the world and not enterprises like Bosch or Samsung, then you don't grasp how we operate.
---> Yes, correct. I don´t grasp how you operate. That is exactly why I have asked you this questions. Furthermore just so you know, there are already many multibillion industrial mining farms around the world. I know this because I have seen them with my own eyes or footage of them. From your company I have seen two youtube videos of a container with holes in it and two small fans on the sides...
-->--> We have published many videos and live streams. Please see our social media channels. A container-based unit is never going to look like a multibillion-dollar data center. They are designed to be modular, robust, and used standardized parts. If you want a pretty looking mining unit, you're better off waiting until Apple designs one. Ours are pieces of industrial equipment and that's what they look like.
For example, the pipes on the outside are inexpensive standard DIN pipes. We do that so that they can be replaced cheaply anywhere in the world to reduce cost and downtime should any part fail. Static data centers don't have this challenge so they don't have to work as hard on design. They can use custom parts which are costly and hard to source. If we tried to impress you with optics, our product would not meet the KPIs that make it viable for envion's business model use cases.
___
The MMUs are designed to be as low maintenance as possible. Even thought they are close to zero maintenance, our first customers will host large arrays of dozens of MMUsplaces where it will be cost effective to have maintenance personnel on duty or where power plant personnel can be trained to perform routine activities.
--> This is my favourite part of your reply.
So your answer to my question, where the engineer or IT guys will be, inside the container or sitting outside somewhere, or traveling. Your answer is, power plant personal will be trained? lol
And I also like the part where you have customers who will put miners in dozens of MMUs. One MMU fits about 90 ASICS so >1000 ASICS will come your way. Do you have a timeline when this dozens of MMUs are going to be released? Do you already have such customers who have over 1000 ASIC ready to put in a container?
-->--> Maintenance personal will not need to monitor operations full time, if that's what you're asking. The inside of a MMU is not hospitable to humans: it's windy and loud and the cooling system requires an unobstructed air flow.
Yes, we have customers interested in large arrays. I'm glad you like that.
Production starts in January. It will take a few weeks to scale up the production line. At scale, a MMU will roll off the line every few hours. The full order for the ICO MMUs should be finished in Q2.
Yes, we have vendors for ASICs. We organized this before announcing the ICO. Since the ICO, we get offers every day from ASIC vendors. When you are making multi-million-dollar orders, there is ample supply.
____
Eventually, we will engineer all of the remaining manual maintenance activities out of the design and it will be possible to install a single unit somewhere where maintenance personnel is not available. Again, for now we have the luxury of choice and all the calculations for this are in the ROI details we've published.
--> I can not believe my eyes! So you are telling, you are going to monitor (realistic), control (realistic) and maintain (NOT realistic) over 90 miners from a distance? But until you get there "eventually" you will have the power plant guys do it? Hmmm good very satisfying response.
-->--> No. This is the opposite of what I said. Large arrays will have dedicated personnel. We are not at the point where a single MMU can be 100% maintained from a distance. That is the goal we are working toward. All installations will have plans for maintenance and that is factored into costs.
____
HARDWARE REPLACEMENT
Our calculations include regular hardware replacements due to bad miners or occasional burn out. More importantly, our mining software makes those replacements much less likely.
--> This is maybe the biggest invention and news. So you have software which will compensate for inferior hardware? So if GMO manages to make 7nm chips and miners come out. You have 100 000 USD ready for replacement ? Or is your software going to compensate?
-->--> Please read my whole response. No, it's not cost effective to replace the entire hardware of a MMU (see below). We will produce with latest hardware. Deprecated hardware that can no longer mine will have other uses.
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When the hardware is no longer able to mine profitably, then we use it for something else. Large enterprises as well as startups are investing billions into blockchain technologies and the computational power from these miners can be used to provide the physical infrastructure these businesses rely on. The cost of the container itself is marginal compared to the GPU/ASIC price. When they are completely obsolete and cannot provide any more value, the entire unit will simply be replaced. That's part of what the 25% reinvestment is aboutgrowth and deprecated MMU replacement. That is all part of the ROI calculations.
--> Yes throw some more "billions and millions" I guess the greedy noobs really like that. 25% will cover the cost of 100 000USD new mining hardware you will need every year for each MMU? You probably have heard of technological singularity ? Yes Blockchain is big business now already and everyone wants a piece. If you are in crypto for several years and have witnessed the parabolic growth, not just of price of crypto, but advances in mining hardware. Then you will get my point, your MMUs with a price tag of 100 000 are too expensive! I expect hardware updates will be needed at least once a year. This means the cost of a MMU will be double of what you expect it to. So all your calculation and 25% is not going to make it.
-->--> I don't think you grasp what I'm saying. Hardware will not be replaced because the majority of the unit cost comes from hardware.
After so many days, an array of 10 MMUs finances the production of a new one, then another. As MMUs become obsolete, they have already paid for their replacements. Our 10 MMU array has financed its own replacement a few times over after 2 years when mining may no longer be profitable. So 10 more are already installed there with latest hardware. The old ones can still operate and use computing for other purposesfinancing even more new MMUs. By the time they are completely obsolete from any useful purpose, they have paid for their replacements many times over.
My Conclusion:
This is all my personal opinion. Everyone is free to invest in what they want. Everyone is free to their opinion. This is why this kind of forum exists. If you do not want people asking questions or being critical, then you do not know the mindset of the core supporters of crypto. Then just ran adds on google as click bate.
For people new in crypto, watch out, do your own thinking and invest only that what you can afford loosing.
I do not think Envion is a scam. The idea of mobile mining solutions sounds nice. But the question is, when there are already big mining facilities function and offer 0.03 or 0.04USD power cost and offer maintenance of miners, offer professional engineers working on the project. People who mined before some of this guys of Envion even knew what Bitcoin was. Why take the risk with Envion? For me this guys do not bring real answers, they are common salesman. Just repeating sentences with no reals content, trying to get a piece of the cake. I rather by coins and HODL!
P.S. Examples of failed ICOs on mining:
https://affinitymining.io
https://mineum.org
https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/tothemoon/
Good luck everyone!
Answers in line above.
We encourage everyone to be skeptical and to do their due diligence. We hope that includes reading all the information we publish. You have a certain idea of how mining should be done and it's clearly very different from the enterprise model that we have created. Our goals are different and our team and designs reflect that.
Our approach is a very German approach to mining with a laser focus on efficiency, simplicity, and thorough design of processes and components. We don't just have data center engineers, but professionals who apply their expertise to every aspect of the business from logistics, to parts design, to business data processing. That doesn't dilute the expertise we bring to mining, it enhances the viability of our mining expertise to be profitable in the long-term and with more diverse use cases and operating conditions. We are creating an industrial product and not trying to convince anyone otherwise.