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Re: Global untraceable phone calls - is it still a good idea?
⭐ Merited by dkbit98 (1)
I just tested this and I can confirm that you are right, but rates are a bit higher than I expected for calls in Europe, maybe because server and everything else is based in United States.
Well it is mainly because the operator I use for the trunking of the calls is an American company. This in combination with the EU roaming regulations from 2016 which makes calls within EU cheap, which in turn made the telcos charge more from calls from outside the EU. The solution would be to use a European company to trunk the calls, and there is no reason why I can't have several and chose the one that is cheaper for each call. I have a European one too, but I haven't been able to get my PBX software to work with that one yet. I will investigate this, to my defence I'll say that I think configuring VoIP servers and getting stuff to interoperate is way more complicated than it should be... 
I don't want to use anything like this that is connected with metamask wallet, so temporary sign-up would be just fine.
Maybe you can create something like Chipmixer website is using with their Session Token that is used to restore last session.
Alright! Temporary signup it will be... The session token is also a good idea.Maybe you can create something like Chipmixer website is using with their Session Token that is used to restore last session.
I don't have anything against normal sign-up registration as long as I don't have to use email addresses or real phone numbers.
Hm, but if the signup doesn't use email or phone number, what would you be using? You mean signup with username and password (but no email)?Re: Global untraceable phone calls - is it still a good idea?
⭐ Merited by dkbit98 (1)
Thank you so much guys for testing!
Will summarise some points here...
- Regarding the delay for the echo test. Depends on what you mean... The way that echo test works, is that it records for 5 seconds, then
reads back the recording. So that part of the delay is by design. But then also, I have noticed a bit of delay which I think is because of the location of my server. Ideally it should be close to where the caller is. Since I'm in Indonesia, I put it in Singapore. Which I don't think is close to where my costumers will be, so I think I will move it. Eventually have several servers in different continents, but should probably start with North America or Europe rater than Asia.
- I don't have a "rate table", because there are many different rates depending on the number you are calling. The way to get the rate for a number is to type it in the number input field and it will be shown. It is not 100% clear that it is supposed to work that way though, so will add a note about it.
- Yep there is an echo test by calling the number 801. But it is a bit hard to find, so will add a note about that too.
- The reason why you have to create an account is because I thought it will be too easy to lose your credit otherwise. If you don't have an account, the only way to associate you with your credit would be through a cookie in the browser, so if you clear your cookies, the credit will be gone. But then again, this is actually the way e.g. lightning-roulette.com works, i.e. with a cookie. And it is also the way good old phone booths worked, they didn't have an "account", you just paid the money for one phone call before you made it. So I think I will introduce a kind of signup-less temporary accounts, where the credit will be associated with a cookie. This is actually the way my old service worked, and I think this is OK as long as it is clearly stated. Either that, or I could add meta mask support, which will give a more anonymous signup. I have thought about both of these options, which one do you think I should prioritise?
- I don't know where that SSL error comes from... (
) I tried with Firefox just now, and it worked fine for me. I haven't done a lot of cross browser testing though, so I think I will get myself an account at Browsersack to do that.
Alright, thanks a lot for testing and feedback! This gives me a to do list which I will chip away at. Will let you know when there is something new to test!
Will summarise some points here...
- Regarding the delay for the echo test. Depends on what you mean... The way that echo test works, is that it records for 5 seconds, then
reads back the recording. So that part of the delay is by design. But then also, I have noticed a bit of delay which I think is because of the location of my server. Ideally it should be close to where the caller is. Since I'm in Indonesia, I put it in Singapore. Which I don't think is close to where my costumers will be, so I think I will move it. Eventually have several servers in different continents, but should probably start with North America or Europe rater than Asia.
- I don't have a "rate table", because there are many different rates depending on the number you are calling. The way to get the rate for a number is to type it in the number input field and it will be shown. It is not 100% clear that it is supposed to work that way though, so will add a note about it.
- Yep there is an echo test by calling the number 801. But it is a bit hard to find, so will add a note about that too.
- The reason why you have to create an account is because I thought it will be too easy to lose your credit otherwise. If you don't have an account, the only way to associate you with your credit would be through a cookie in the browser, so if you clear your cookies, the credit will be gone. But then again, this is actually the way e.g. lightning-roulette.com works, i.e. with a cookie. And it is also the way good old phone booths worked, they didn't have an "account", you just paid the money for one phone call before you made it. So I think I will introduce a kind of signup-less temporary accounts, where the credit will be associated with a cookie. This is actually the way my old service worked, and I think this is OK as long as it is clearly stated. Either that, or I could add meta mask support, which will give a more anonymous signup. I have thought about both of these options, which one do you think I should prioritise?
- I don't know where that SSL error comes from... (
) I tried with Firefox just now, and it worked fine for me. I haven't done a lot of cross browser testing though, so I think I will get myself an account at Browsersack to do that.Alright, thanks a lot for testing and feedback! This gives me a to do list which I will chip away at. Will let you know when there is something new to test!
Re: Global untraceable phone calls - is it still a good idea?
When you have some early beta version ready post it here for testing.
Alright! A very early version available now, mileage will probably vary, really curious if someone can get it to work and get feedback:
https://papayaphone.com/
So it is not chiliphone this time, because someone snatched my domain...
Anyway, I realised that chili is not ideal in a domain name since it can be spelled both chili and chilli. So papaya it is! Similar service, different vegetable (or is it fruit?).Re: Global untraceable phone calls - is it still a good idea?
The thing is.... can you live with yourself, if someone used your service for criminal activities. (That was the reason why one of the biggest Mixer operators closed their site)
Imagine some Pedophile using your service to groom a child and then ultimately ending up in him/her raping or murdering that child? (Will the authorities come after you, if something like that happens and will your ToS stand up in court?)
Scenario #2 : Imagine if a terrorist organization used your service to plan a terrorist attack like 911. The 3Letter agencies will come down on you with the full force of the law.
It is fine, if you create a service like this for yourself and some people that you know, but when it is public.... things become a lot more complex.
Imagine some Pedophile using your service to groom a child and then ultimately ending up in him/her raping or murdering that child? (Will the authorities come after you, if something like that happens and will your ToS stand up in court?)
Scenario #2 : Imagine if a terrorist organization used your service to plan a terrorist attack like 911. The 3Letter agencies will come down on you with the full force of the law.
It is fine, if you create a service like this for yourself and some people that you know, but when it is public.... things become a lot more complex.
Well if something like that happened it would of course be very tragic. However I think that allowing people to communicate in general leads to a safer and more prosperous world (thereby combating both crime and terrorism). I would be happy to stand up for this opinion, it is not like I'm selling guns, drugs or organising or promoting gambling...
Re: Global untraceable phone calls - is it still a good idea?
Thanks guys for all the feedback! Will not answer to all the posts individually because that would make the thread quite messy. Will summarize my take aways and conclusion.
Regarding untraceability. I will rely on an external SIP trunk to connect to the telephone network, and only god knows what the telco in charge of that SIP trunk wants to do with the traffic. The point was not to make it super-private. It is more untraceable in the same way as good old burner phones that you buy for cash. I.e., the phone call will not be more private, but at least the way you pay for the phone call will be. I would imagine that a WhatsApp call is more private, but with WhatsApp you can't call the regular phone network. I don't have any special measure or secret sauce to make it more untraceable than that. Also, I will not store any information about anything, but you will have to take my word for it, there is no way I can prove that I won't.
Anyway, my key selling point was not really the untraceability part, it is more an "extra" feature. The initial idea is really to scratch my own itch. The main use case, i.e. the itch to scratch is more like the following. I'm a digital nomad, and sometimes I have to call my bank, insurance company, embassy, tax man, or some something other government related back in my home country. If I just buy a local SIM card, it will be expensive. I could of course use Skype or Viber and pay with a credit card, but the process of downloading, signing up and jumping to all kinds of hoops just to make a phone call with those services is quite a hassle. It would be more convenient to just make a Bitcoin or Lightning payment here.
So I think I will tone down the "untraceability" in my marketing, and just call it a service to quickly make phone calls in the browser and pay with crypto.
Yep maybe in the future I can add the possibility to receive calls too, and to send and receive SMS. But just have to start somewhere first...
Related to technical aspects I'm planning to use Electrum running as a daemon. The reason why is that in this case I don't need to download the whole blockchain. I think that with BTCpayserver I do. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and also let me know if there are any specific reasons why BTCpayserver would be better than Electrum.
Alright, will continue to hack on it for a bit, and post an update when I have something to show...
Regarding untraceability. I will rely on an external SIP trunk to connect to the telephone network, and only god knows what the telco in charge of that SIP trunk wants to do with the traffic. The point was not to make it super-private. It is more untraceable in the same way as good old burner phones that you buy for cash. I.e., the phone call will not be more private, but at least the way you pay for the phone call will be. I would imagine that a WhatsApp call is more private, but with WhatsApp you can't call the regular phone network. I don't have any special measure or secret sauce to make it more untraceable than that. Also, I will not store any information about anything, but you will have to take my word for it, there is no way I can prove that I won't.
Anyway, my key selling point was not really the untraceability part, it is more an "extra" feature. The initial idea is really to scratch my own itch. The main use case, i.e. the itch to scratch is more like the following. I'm a digital nomad, and sometimes I have to call my bank, insurance company, embassy, tax man, or some something other government related back in my home country. If I just buy a local SIM card, it will be expensive. I could of course use Skype or Viber and pay with a credit card, but the process of downloading, signing up and jumping to all kinds of hoops just to make a phone call with those services is quite a hassle. It would be more convenient to just make a Bitcoin or Lightning payment here.
So I think I will tone down the "untraceability" in my marketing, and just call it a service to quickly make phone calls in the browser and pay with crypto.
Yep maybe in the future I can add the possibility to receive calls too, and to send and receive SMS. But just have to start somewhere first...
Related to technical aspects I'm planning to use Electrum running as a daemon. The reason why is that in this case I don't need to download the whole blockchain. I think that with BTCpayserver I do. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and also let me know if there are any specific reasons why BTCpayserver would be better than Electrum.
Alright, will continue to hack on it for a bit, and post an update when I have something to show...
⭐ Merited by LoyceV (6) ,hugeblack (4) ,Welsh (4) ,dkbit98 (3) ,The Cryptovator (2) ,Pmalek (2) ,ETFbitcoin (1) ,BlackHatCoiner (1) ,famososMuertos (1) ,DdmrDdmr (1)
Hello people!
Way back in the day (2014) I created a site called chiliphone.com. I announced it here on the forum as well, in this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=757391, and a bit later it stirred up some discussion in this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=911228.
At the time I didn't think of it as anything but an experiment. After that second post and the article I started to see some traffic though, and it started generating a small but steady stream of deposits. I got a bit scared and stressed out at this point, because I didn't fully trust my underlying tech and program. I took it offline with the intention of refactoring it, and never ended up putting it back up.
So I want to ask you guys if you think this still would be a useful service? I have looked around a bit, and can't really find another site that provides the same service. Is it worth spending time on getting it back up?
To explain very quickly how it worked:
1. Pay some bitcoin to an address (or in this day and age, why not lightning network).
2. Cal any international phone number using WebRTC directly from your browser.
Way back in the day (2014) I created a site called chiliphone.com. I announced it here on the forum as well, in this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=757391, and a bit later it stirred up some discussion in this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=911228.
At the time I didn't think of it as anything but an experiment. After that second post and the article I started to see some traffic though, and it started generating a small but steady stream of deposits. I got a bit scared and stressed out at this point, because I didn't fully trust my underlying tech and program. I took it offline with the intention of refactoring it, and never ended up putting it back up.
So I want to ask you guys if you think this still would be a useful service? I have looked around a bit, and can't really find another site that provides the same service. Is it worth spending time on getting it back up?
To explain very quickly how it worked:
1. Pay some bitcoin to an address (or in this day and age, why not lightning network).
2. Cal any international phone number using WebRTC directly from your browser.
Sorry if my knowledge of NFTs and smart contracts is limited, but as far as I understand they wouldn't be the right thing for something like a poker game. NFTs represent assets that can be bought, sold and used in a game (such as a digital cat for CryptoKitties). But poker is not played with "tokens" in this way. Also, if we would use a smart contract for each turn in the game, the turns would need to take a minimum of 15 seconds, because this is the block time for ethereum. IMO this is too slow for a poker game, players want to act faster than this. It would also be prohibitively expensive to play the game if we need to make an ethereum transaction for each turn. I think what would be needed is something like the Internet Computer (DFINITY) or Cartesi. These platforms allow decentralised computation that can be verified by a blockchain, but they don't run on a blockchain themselves. The result is that they can run decentralised computation that runs at "regular computer speed". There is actually poker engine under development on top of Cartesi here: https://github.com/cartesi/poker.
Reading my reply I realise that it might come across a bit "smart ass". It is not my intention. It might be the case that NFTs and smart contracts are the perfect things for decentralised poker, but I just don't understand how. If this is the case, please explain more!
Reading my reply I realise that it might come across a bit "smart ass". It is not my intention. It might be the case that NFTs and smart contracts are the perfect things for decentralised poker, but I just don't understand how. If this is the case, please explain more!
If one of the players is the dealer and deals the cards there is a problem because then the dealer knows the cards of the other players. Because the dealer is also participating in the game. It could be encrypted in some clever multi-party way so that the dealer doesn't know the cards, but then it could also be encrypted in the same way in a client-server scenario, so having a player be the dealer doesn't really achieve anything. There is a good explanation in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mthPiiCS24A
In this scenario all the cards are encrypted with the keys from all the players, so it is only when all players agree that a card can be relieved. This would work in theory, but only as long as the players are fair enough to provide the encryption keys when a card is to be dealt. A player can easily sabotage the game if he has bad cards and doesn't want to play them.
Another possibility would be if the game is actually happening as a smart contract on a blockchain, and the card dealing happens as transactions. This wouldn't really be possible either, because smart contracts are executing far too slow for that.
This is as far as I have gotten in my thinking. I'm sure there is a solution, but I haven't figured it out yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mthPiiCS24A
In this scenario all the cards are encrypted with the keys from all the players, so it is only when all players agree that a card can be relieved. This would work in theory, but only as long as the players are fair enough to provide the encryption keys when a card is to be dealt. A player can easily sabotage the game if he has bad cards and doesn't want to play them.
Another possibility would be if the game is actually happening as a smart contract on a blockchain, and the card dealing happens as transactions. This wouldn't really be possible either, because smart contracts are executing far too slow for that.
This is as far as I have gotten in my thinking. I'm sure there is a solution, but I haven't figured it out yet.
Re: Looking for a developer for a provably fair roulette game.
We are currently two individuals with a plan to make a provably fair roulette game. I will be providing the bankroll, and the other guy will be providing design. I will provide proof of funds (signed bitcoin message) for a qualified person who is interested. You will be 1/3 owner of the site; payment will be 1/3 of any profit that we make.
I sent you a PM!
Re: Tonopah - open source poker engine - looking for business partners
Why not making an own pokerroom?
Maybe I should! But there is a lot of work required in order to actually run a pokerroom, in terms of marketing, PR, copy writing, communication and such. This is not really my expertise. You can see, for example, that in the 12 years that I have been a member of this forum, I have made a total of 58 posts including this one. Other members have made thousands of posts, so I think that there are other people who are more passionate about communication than I am. Would prefer to team up with such a person. Do you know anyone?
Re: Tonopah - open source poker engine - looking for business partners
Hello hello!
Bumping this this thread because I want to announce my installation guide:
https://tonopahpoker.com/installation/
It explains how to set up the poker game on your WordPress site.
Would love some feedback!
Cheers!
Bumping this this thread because I want to announce my installation guide:
https://tonopahpoker.com/installation/
It explains how to set up the poker game on your WordPress site.
Would love some feedback!
Cheers!
I have recently implemented a solution for deposits and withrawals of Bitcoin using Electrum in daemon mode. I can really recommend it, it combines the best of both worlds.
- You are in control of your own keys.
- You don't need to run a full node (you can use a $5 server, a full node costs at least $50 per month)
Electrum has a very nice and easy to use JSON-RPC interface. It also supports Lightning Network.
- You are in control of your own keys.
- You don't need to run a full node (you can use a $5 server, a full node costs at least $50 per month)
Electrum has a very nice and easy to use JSON-RPC interface. It also supports Lightning Network.
it's what you didn't say that matters to us tho.....
Intriguing! Can you be more specific about what it was I didn't say? Just asking because I want to learn and understand as much as I can about the mindset of entrepreneurs. I have developed a poker engine and looking for investors amd collaborators who wants to use it for a poker site. More info on my website:
https://tonopahpoker.com/
https://tonopahpoker.com/
Re: Tonopah - open source poker engine - looking for business partners
So you are actually looking for investors and hoping that someone will support you and use your software on their gambling website?
Yep, exactly. I will be able to provide the service of customising, installing the software and keeping it running smoothly on their servers.
Re: Tonopah - open source poker engine - looking for business partners
Do you have any open source link on github or similar websites to confirm your claims, and is your Tonopah poker only working with Bitcoin Testnet at the moment?
I think that How to play section needs to be updated with some instructions because currently it only shows bla bla bla…
I think that How to play section needs to be updated with some instructions because currently it only shows bla bla bla…
The GihHub link is under download, here: https://tonopahpoker.com/downloads/ And here is the link directly to the GitHub repo: https://github.com/limikael/tonopah
Yeah, a lot needs to be updated!
As you can see, the GitHub page says "Documentation and such should be here... It just needs to be written first... "... I'm not in my comfort zone when it comes to writing text for humans... I would rather write 1000 lines of programming code than one sentence of text to explain things...The way that I have set up and installed things on tonopahpoker.com it only works with Testnet. This is mainly for legal reasons, since I'm developing this software under my own name and fully in public. If I would accept real bitcoin there I would effectively be running a gambling site, which is not legal. Testnet coins have no value, so it should be legal. Tonopahpoker.com is NOT a poker site, it is a page to provide information about the software.
Tonopah - open source poker engine - looking for business partners
⭐ Merited by dkbit98 (1)
So, today is the day when I let my little creation see the light of day. It is a poker engine, and I have set up a test and demo page for it here:
https://tonopahpoker.com/
The main features:
- It supports deposits and withdrawals in Bitcoin and Lightning Network.
- Both cash games and tournaments are supported.
- It has a WordPress plugin, so administration and content creation for a poker site is easy and straight forward.
I'm a programmer and would love to continue focusing on this... Looking for fellow entrepreneurs who have experience with marketing, PR and such and would like to team up and get a poker site going!
https://tonopahpoker.com/
The main features:
- It supports deposits and withdrawals in Bitcoin and Lightning Network.
- Both cash games and tournaments are supported.
- It has a WordPress plugin, so administration and content creation for a poker site is easy and straight forward.
I'm a programmer and would love to continue focusing on this...
Looking for fellow entrepreneurs who have experience with marketing, PR and such and would like to team up and get a poker site going!Hello!
I actually logged in to Bitcointalk today to announce the first release of my open source poker engine: https://tonopahpoker.com/
I'm looking to get in contact with people who want to partner up with me and start a poker site based on my software.
I'm still going to make that post, but it could also be interesting to test your service for this, I thought... So I created an ad there.
What counts as a "conversion"? I want people to use the contact form on my site, so does each person who fills out the form count as a conversion?
I'm a very inexperienced ad-buyer, don't know if this makes me a good or bad tester, but anyway, here are my initial take anyways:
- I received the email from you, so that part worked!
- I would have liked to understand a little bit better where my ad will be shown, and what it will look like. A preview of the ad while I fill in the information would be helpful.
- The invoice status now says "Pending confirmations", would be helpful if you could show there how many confirmations the transaction currently has and how many confirmations you require.
- Will I receive another email when the ad goes live with a link to where I can see it running? Would be awesome if I did.
Is this the kind of feedback you are looking for?
I actually logged in to Bitcointalk today to announce the first release of my open source poker engine: https://tonopahpoker.com/
I'm looking to get in contact with people who want to partner up with me and start a poker site based on my software.
I'm still going to make that post, but it could also be interesting to test your service for this, I thought...
So I created an ad there.What counts as a "conversion"? I want people to use the contact form on my site, so does each person who fills out the form count as a conversion?
I'm a very inexperienced ad-buyer, don't know if this makes me a good or bad tester, but anyway, here are my initial take anyways:
- I received the email from you, so that part worked!
- I would have liked to understand a little bit better where my ad will be shown, and what it will look like. A preview of the ad while I fill in the information would be helpful.
- The invoice status now says "Pending confirmations", would be helpful if you could show there how many confirmations the transaction currently has and how many confirmations you require.
- Will I receive another email when the ad goes live with a link to where I can see it running? Would be awesome if I did.
Is this the kind of feedback you are looking for?
They simply resolved it just for the sake of this thread?
But did they mentioned actual reason why your account was frozen or its just due to certain limits exceeds?
Don't use it for swaps or exchange or even as a wallet to store few bucks because their platforms turns out to be shady na d buggy.
But did they mentioned actual reason why your account was frozen or its just due to certain limits exceeds?
Don't use it for swaps or exchange or even as a wallet to store few bucks because their platforms turns out to be shady na d buggy.
Who knows what impact the thread had on the resolution. All I know is that they were quiet for 3 months, and when I made this thread and told them about it, the issue got resolved after 1 day. No word from them, so don't know. Maybe it is just a coincidence and they were just about to resolve it anyway?
The reason my account was frozen was because I had hit the withdraw limit and needed to go through the KYC process. But when I tried to upload my passport, it was rejected because they said the photo was blurry. Even though the passport was rejected, there was no way on their website to upload a new photo, it just said processing. So I tried in every was I could to get a new passport photo across to them, through email, through their ticket system, through their support chat. But no reply, just the support chat telling me to be patient and accept their appologies.
Then when I wrote this thread, I was suddenly approved and my money was released. No word from them though.
So my speculation is the following, which is just a speculation based on my feeling. They have deliberately made their KYC extra complicated and non user friendly. This way they hope a certain percentage of the customers will not be able to go through it. This way they can keep some of their customers money, while still maintaining deniability and blame the problem on the customer and government regulation.